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Isle of Skye: From Chieftain to King» Forums » General

Subject: A no catch up Isle of skye rss

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Jonathan Er
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Just wanted to ask the opinion of others

I've inly played this thrice and I'm really loving it
My one concern is that the person who is coming from somewhat behind has usually won (that's been me at 3 times)
I'm finding the catch money to be too much esp if the scores of being ahead were just 1 or 2 points differential

Would this still work if the income was purely your income from your tiles and no catch up income?
Would this make tile luck draw higher?
I was thinking of doing a just income only game and if you really needed extra money, instead of buying a tile, you may pass and collect your full income

I choose to believe I won from a lot of good smart play, but I felt those behind always had immensely much more money than the leading player and thus pricing out the leading player for much of the last 2 rounds

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Stuart Boston
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I've played 4 times, my experience has been a little different.

The players that have been behind have always been more that 2-3 points between them, so the catch up money allows them to close the gap, but only during the last round, i.e. not something to rely on as a tactic.

One of those games even had the money scoring tile as the "D" score and so was scored on the last turn.
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Chris Funk
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I know a lot of people don't like the catch up mechanism, but a lot of those don't like any catch up mechanism. I don't mind IoS's so much. It is very possible to have some bad tile draws that limit your potential to create money (say, someone else manages to start early with two whiskey tiles) and it can give them an early advantage with more ability to secure the tiles they want.

Yes, you can argue that the people behind should just play better, but the tiles draws are a huge element of chance. Someone has bad luck, the catch up at least gives them the ability to try and stop someone else in the lead from buying anything they want while at the same time allowing the player to protect the tiles they need most in front of them. Even if that player just sits back and collects money, odds are the points everyone else gets from scoring the objectives won't equal out anything of much an advantage after trading in 5:1 for points at the end.

In the end, I've rarely seen the catch up create a king, but rather a tighter scoring game where most players are close but the one that bought and placed the best still won.
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Pierre Beri
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The catchup mechanism is what makes scoring D more valuable than scoring C, which in turn is more valuable than scoring B, which in turn is more valuable than scoring A.

Try playing with this in mind.
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Dan Cavaliere
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Just played yesterday and we talked a little about the catch up mechanism. In our 5p game my father in law had both of his tiles bought on most of the rounds and therefore was not scoring much since his clan territory was small.

As we moved to the later rounds he was able to price higher as well as get points for the money accumulated in the end. He was behind for most of the game but in the end moved up into contention.

Personally I like the mechanism and haven't found it out of balance. The one thing I have trouble watching for are players accumulating scrolls and making a huge score to win in the end - not a balance problem, just another aspect of the game that makes it challenging for me.
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Jon Vallerand
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Here's the thing: the "catch-up money" is not there to make you catch up at all. It's there to balance those who got all of their tiles bought. In a 3p game, if both opponents buy both your tiles, and you buy one of theirs, after two rounds they each have 4 tiles, and you have 2. Why? Just 'cause what you had was more interesting to them. Getting the money means being able to price your tiles so you can keep them.
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Pierre Beri
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Gamer DC wrote:
Personally I like the mechanism and haven't found it out of balance. The one thing I have trouble watching for are players accumulating scrolls and making a huge score to win in the end - not a balance problem, just another aspect of the game that makes it challenging for me.
I haven’t seen anyone win just because of the scrolls, without having scored nicely during the game as well.

I wish it was possible to score little during the game and a lot at the end, but haven’t seen it happen yet.
 
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Pierre Beri
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If you want, you could also cap the catchup money based on how far behind you are.

For example, 4 player game, you are in last position before the last round and other players are respectively 12 / 3 / 1 VP ahead of you.
Then you get min[12;4] + min [3;4] + min [1;4] = 4 + 3 + 1 coins.
The third player gets 4 + 2 and the second gets 4.

This is to avoid the situation where you luckily get 12$ when you are just 1VP behind the other three tied players, who get nothing.
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Jonathan Er
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Thanks all

It just occured to me cos I played a game just now, and the scoring going into the last 3 rounds were 1 point differential from first to fourth ( 4 player game). So just one point separating 1st and 2nd, 2nd and 3rd etc

And I was like 3rd or so most of the time
I won really handily by almost 20 points, that's coz I've played before
But the rest ended up in the reverse order from when the last round started. The first place player couldn't buy anything of value to him for the last two rounds due to great money shortage

The one player got 10 points from just money alone
Felt a bit harsh for leading by just one point (or 3 points from last player)
 
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Jonathan Er
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beri2 wrote:
If you want, you could also cap the catchup money based on how far behind you are.

For example, 4 player game, you are in last position before the last round and other players are respectively 12 / 3 / 1 VP ahead of you.
Then you get min[12;4] + min [3;4] + min [1;4] = 4 + 3 + 1 coins.
The third player gets 4 + 2 and the second gets 4.

This is to avoid the situation where you luckily get 12$ when you are just 1VP behind the other three tied players, who get nothing.


Sounds like a decent influx of money
Might consider trying that in the future
 
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Dan Cavaliere
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beri2 wrote:
Gamer DC wrote:
Personally I like the mechanism and haven't found it out of balance. The one thing I have trouble watching for are players accumulating scrolls and making a huge score to win in the end - not a balance problem, just another aspect of the game that makes it challenging for me.
I haven’t seen anyone win just because of the scrolls, without having scored nicely during the game as well.

I wish it was possible to score little during the game and a lot at the end, but haven’t seen it happen yet.


I've seen it a couple of times. In yesterday's game it was more like you mentioned, decent scoring during the game by my brother in law with a good scroll score in the end.

A couple of other games my son (who is quite good at watching/figuring probabilities in games) has been behind most of the game only to score 2 or more enclosed scrolls (sometimes two of the same scroll) and come from behind with huge scores in the end.
 
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Jon Vallerand
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beri2 wrote:
I haven’t seen anyone win just because of the scrolls, without having scored nicely during the game as well.

I wish it was possible to score little during the game and a lot at the end, but haven’t seen it happen yet.

I've actually done that multiple times. What's nice is tat not only does it come as a surprise, but it makes tiles worth something different to you than it does the others, which also means the cheaper tile can be worth a lot to you.

Jion wrote:
Sounds like a decent influx of money
Might consider trying that in the future


And that is why many people argue that catch up mechanisms don't exist: they just change the game's heuristics.
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Leonard Smith
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I was really worried about the catch-up mechanic at first.

But after 10 plays, I actually don't think it's strong enough.

I've never seen last place player move out of last place, regardless of their influx of money. And only once out of the ten games have I seen the leader at round three dethroned.

If you get good tiles for your first two rounds, they're going to keep scoring and scoring.

I actually see the flaw that it's still too hard to catch up after a really bad round one.
 
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Ryan Peddle
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ignu wrote:
I was really worried about the catch-up mechanic at first.

But after 10 plays, I actually don't think it's strong enough.

I've never seen last place player move out of last place, regardless of their influx of money. And only once out of the ten games have I seen the leader at round three dethroned.

If you get good tiles for your first two rounds, they're going to keep scoring and scoring.

I actually see the flaw that it's still too hard to catch up after a really bad round one.


This is very true....the difficulty as the leader is watching a good second or third if they are close.
 
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mister lee
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Maybe a possible catch up variant could be.

For every point you are behind, you get 1 gold.
so if you are 15 pts behind 1st, 6 pts behind 2nd and 2 pts behind 3rd, you get 23 gold (4VP at the end)
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Pierre Beri
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canadiankorean wrote:
Maybe a possible catch up variant could be.

For every point you are behind, you get 1 gold.
so if you are 15 pts behind 1st, 6 pts behind 2nd and 2 pts behind 3rd, you get 23 gold (4VP at the end)
And how do you scale that through rounds 3 to 5-6?
 
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