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Star Wars: Rebellion» Forums » Rules

Subject: Death Star Under Construction - can ground forces delay it? rss

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Mark Chiddicks
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The presence of enemy units in a system prevents the deployment of new units to that system.

Does this mean that flying a couple of rebel troopers into the remote system where the new Death Star is being built in a transport ship (which can't destroy the DSUC as it's not a combat vessel) and landing them on the planet prevents the Death Star from actually being deployed there until the Empire gets rid of them?

I see nothing in the rules to suggest it is a special case

 
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Craig S.
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The completed Death Star does not technically get "deployed" to the system; it replaces the DSUC. So, no, what you are suggesting would not prevent the DS from replacing the DSUC.
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Mark Chiddicks
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Do you have a rules citation or FAQ to support that view? Its certainly a reasonable one, but so is the idea that opposing forces interfere with production, full stop - and the DSUC is stuck at position one on the track until the pesky rebels are removed.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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The card says that when the Death Star is deployed, it replaces the Death Star Under Construction. The RRG also says:
RRG - Death Star wrote:
If an ability allows the Imperial player to deploy a Death Star
in a system, it can be placed only in the Death Star Under
Construction’s system.


It thus doesn't deploy to the system where the DSUC is, it is placed in the system, replacing the DSUC. Placement effects are not blocked in the same way as deployment effects.

Further proof that the Death Star is not considered a normal deployment is the following rule for deployed units:
RRG - Deploy Units wrote:
Remote systems cannot have loyalty; therefore, units cannot be
deployed there.

You would never be able to deploy the Death Star if that rule applied to the Death Star's construction, so it follows that said construction should not be blocked by other rules that block deployment.
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Mark Chiddicks
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but.... it mentions 'the ability to Deploy a Death Star', so its not as clear as you seem to think it is.

 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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KinginAmber wrote:
but.... it mentions 'the ability to Deploy a Death Star', so its not as clear as you seem to think it is.


If this was blocked by foreign units, it would also be blocked by being a remote system by the same argument.
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Angelus Seniores
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putting rebel troopers there would not stop the arrival of the death star.

but sending a single spaceship other than a transport would ensure the DSUC's destruction if its not defended by other imperial ships.
 
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Mark Chiddicks
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Well my point is a lack of clarity and consistency of terminology in the rules, which I think this proves. This is an unclear rule - it's be nice to get an official POV.
 
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Witold G
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Corey's ruling regarding "Death Star Under Construction vs. sabotage marker" was essentially "You cannot deploy Death Star to a system that contains a sabotage marker; so to avoid that, we need to rule that you cannot reveal Sabotage mission in a remote system."

How is enemy unit different in that regard?
 
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Jan Probst
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Perf wrote:
How is enemy unit different in that regard?


I guess it's different in that you cannot similarly brute force a ruling to the effect of units cannot enter remote systems.
 
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Private Blinky
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KinginAmber wrote:
The presence of enemy units in a system prevents the deployment of new units to that system.

Does this mean that flying a couple of rebel troopers into the remote system where the new Death Star is being built in a transport ship (which can't destroy the DSUC as it's not a combat vessel) and landing them on the planet prevents the Death Star from actually being deployed there until the Empire gets rid of them?

I see nothing in the rules to suggest it is a special case



It's important to note what the fully-complete DS miniature represents while on the game's Building Track, even though it is never explicitly stated as such in any of the official rules. With the DS being a specialized unit in the game (actually a Space Station compared to a Capital Ship or Fighter, but treated as a Capital Ship unit under most regards), the fully completed DS mini on the Build Track is simply a timer representation of just how long the already-deployed DSUC will take before it is finished its own construction. As Craig S. and others had noted, the DSUC is already existing in physical system space (i.e. Deployed), so the process of 'deploying' the DS from the Build Track is equivalent to the final exterior panels bolted down and someone simply pressing the big green button marked 'START' (just avoid giving Gary The Stormtrooper the navigation controls when you need a bathroom break)


As far as prohibiting the DS due to enemy presence, you can also look at it from a logistical point of view; the actual construction of a Death Star, compared in scale to all other unit production assemblies, is so vast and large in scope that there is no way its development could ever be affected by any number of non-hostile Rebel blockades present; only units that can directly engage it through combative force will be able to influence the destiny of the technological terror being constructed.

With both of these in mind, I don't see how it would make sense to ever allow the DS to be blocked since it is also the ONLY unit in the game that can be destroyed mid-production through generic combat circumstances (and not through specialized mission/action cards). If you want to stop the new DS from being built, you gotta blow it up, simple as that.
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Mark Chiddicks
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Yes these same rebel troopers can stop a super star destroyer being deployed?

That's doesn't seem a lot easier to me
 
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Rob Tarr
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Well, there is quite a difference in scale...

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dfg dfgdfg
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"Remote systems cannot have loyalty; therefore, units cannot be
deployed there." is not an argument for me

the second part ist just a not completely true conclusion regarding the first part, not a rule on its own ("therefore")
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Ronnan wrote:
"Remote systems cannot have loyalty; therefore, units cannot be
deployed there." is not an argument for me

the second part ist just a not completely true conclusion regarding the first part, not a rule on its own ("therefore")


Can you show any part of the rules that states you can deploy in a remote system if the Rebel base is revealed to be there? That would seem to be a necessary rule to be present for it to be allowed.
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Craig S.
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Clipper wrote:
Ronnan wrote:
"Remote systems cannot have loyalty; therefore, units cannot be
deployed there." is not an argument for me

the second part ist just a not completely true conclusion regarding the first part, not a rule on its own ("therefore")


Can you show any part of the rules that states you can deploy in a remote system if the Rebel base is revealed to be there? That would seem to be a necessary rule to be present for it to be allowed.


Exactly. Rules tell you what you can do. It is not reasonable to expect the rules to list everything you cannot do. If the rules don't say you can do something, you cannot do it. The rules for deployment are clear. You may deploy units your system unless there is a sabotage marker or enemy unit there. A remote system can never be a rebel system (which is defined as an un-subjugated system with rebel loyalty) or an Imperial system (which is defined as a system loyal to or subjugated by the empire) because remote systems can never have loyalty or subjugation markers. In short, if there is no loyalty or subjugation marker on a system, then neither side can deploy there...and remote systems will never have these markers.

The state of the rebel base (hidden or revealed) does not change the deployment rules in regard to systems. The base space is not a system in any way and is never, ever considered to be a system or alter rules regarding systems (or deployment to them) in any way. You may deploy to the base space while it is hidden, regardless of what is going on in the base system. When the base is revealed, you may not deploy to it at all. Those are the deployment rules of the base space. Systems have their own rules.

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dfg dfgdfg
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here the unexplained but official ruling:

When the Death Star moves off the build queue, it is place in the system that contains the Death Star Under Construction. This happens even if there are Rebel units in the system.

I hope this answers your question!
- Corey Konieczka
VP of Research & Design
Fantasy Flight Games
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Voy-tak Krawomms
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Angelsenior wrote:

but sending a single spaceship other than a transport would ensure the DSUC's destruction if its not defended by other imperial ships.


that happed in one of our last games. i was the imp. i had to agree. with grinding teeth.
But how? I mean, how can a single x-wing without the death star plans destroy the DSUC?
From which rule can that be reasoned?
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Voy_tak wrote:
that happed in one of our last games. i was the imp. i had to agree. with grinding teeth.
But how? I mean, how can a single x-wing without the death star plans destroy the DSUC?
From which rule can that be reasoned?

Which rule? This one:

RRG - Combat wrote:
–– If the Imperial player’s only remaining ship is the
Death Star Under Construction and the Rebel player
still has ships in the system, the Death Star Under
Construction is destroyed.
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Arno Noms
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Voy_tak wrote:
Angelsenior wrote:

but sending a single spaceship other than a transport would ensure the DSUC's destruction if its not defended by other imperial ships.


that happed in one of our last games. i was the imp. i had to agree. with grinding teeth.
But how? I mean, how can a single x-wing without the death star plans destroy the DSUC?
From which rule can that be reasoned?


With no Imperial Military present to protect them, all workers building the DS either flee or are killed by the strafing X-Wing squadron. Finally sappers move in to plant explosives to blow it up.
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Craig S.
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The DSUC in Rebellion is not the DSUC from RotJ. There is no shield generator...
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Mark Chiddicks
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csouth154 wrote:
The DSUC in Rebellion is not the DSUC from RotJ. There is no shield generator...


and I so wish there was!

IMHO the DSUC should come with a couple of stormtroopers on the remote system and they should have to be defeated in order for a fleet to destroy the DSUC!

If the empire wishes to lands extra troops to bolster the ground defences - they can, though its a poor uses of resources

Yes this makes the DSUC harder to kill, but that could be balanced by making it stay on space 1 of the build track for 1 extra turn.

It'd be a ton more thematic!

I am going to copy this to the Variants board right now!
 
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David Umstattd
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Thrombozyt wrote:
Voy_tak wrote:
Angelsenior wrote:

but sending a single spaceship other than a transport would ensure the DSUC's destruction if its not defended by other imperial ships.


that happed in one of our last games. i was the imp. i had to agree. with grinding teeth.
But how? I mean, how can a single x-wing without the death star plans destroy the DSUC?
From which rule can that be reasoned?


With no Imperial Military present to protect them, all workers building the DS either flee or are killed by the strafing X-Wing squadron. Finally sappers move in to plant explosives to blow it up.


In ROTJ the rebels didn't use Death Star plans to blow it up. The thing was still under construction so they were just able to fly inside it and blow shit up till it exploded.
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