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Vast: The Crystal Caverns» Forums » General

Subject: Game balance rss

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Ste M
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We played a 3 player game goblin knight dragon.
The goblin player didn't manage to attack knight everyturn coz he snowballed kinda hard. Dragon could not move him coz he always use shield. He arrives at 55 grit easily, where it was basicallly pointless make him lose grit. He was also always in dragon reach.
Also when the dragon surfaced he had 5 strength coz the item. He could attack. More than once. It's not hard for dragon (or goblin)
Other question. How wrath work? When you put tiles back in order, if there is no adjacent tile to the one destroyed, where you place the knight?
Also if the dragon surface and end turn. The knight can attack him a lot, and for dragon is hard to make a path since is knight who orientate the tile when he explore
 
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Patrick Leder
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Goblin player - The Goblin player doesn't need to hit every turn to win. When they overpopulated were you removing one tribe per over population or just 1 tribe? You only need to Scatter one tribe and you can spend rage to stop overpopulation, 1 rage per tribe.

The Knight is a she. Were you playing the Knight can move through Dark tiles? That will make the game much easier for the Knight. The Knight is required to explore tiles.

The Dragon has to surface in a safe place its true.

I'm afraid I am not following your Wrath question. You roll the die and place the tiles affected at the bottom of the stack prior to the collapse and out of the game during the collapse. If the Knight can't move to an adjacent space to get back onto an uncollapsed tile the one she is on doesn't collapse. This should be clarified in the rules though.

The Dragon can cross walls while surfaced, by moving one space over them with his wing cards. When the Knight is exploring generally there will still be a patch back to the center since the Knight has to orient the tiles as if she had walked into the tile from her previous tile.
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David Fenton
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I'll admit that if the Dragon isn't careful, it can get into a near unwinnable state. A Knight with the Boots (which give +4 move) and Elvish sword (which gives +1 Strength AND +1 Perception, which when surfaced = +1 free attack) can be difficult to avoid. Surfacing with 1 health and trying to escape can be nearly impossible, so try not to let that happen.

Remember that the Knight has to use cubes to activate items (and gain extra strength), which reduces move and number of encounters. Also remember that the Knight must have an Encounter left to move (so for instance, she can't hit you with her last Encounter then move to an Intercept location using her last movement).

But careful use of powers is key. Slap lets the Dragon move the Knight away (so she has to use Hero cubes to allow extra movement). Wrath lets the dragon turn surrounding Lit tiles into Dark (which require Encounters to move through). Swat lets you knock Treasures / Gems out of reach of the Knight (and into a position the Dragon can pick it up instead). Flame Wall can force the Knight to lose Grit (5 Grit often times = a Hero Cube), or use a Hero cube to cast Shield. Every skill or item used is potentially one less encounter. Smash lets you destroy Crystal tokens (keeping the Knight from gaining Grit with it). Even revealing tiles as the dragon prevents the Knight from doing so (and gaining the 1 Grit), though it might speed the Knights movement.

Also, when Surfacing, it can be better to do so further from the Knight (move there while underground, which lets you move faster and ignore Dark tiles and walls), then rely on intervening walls/Dark tiles to keep the Knight away. The Knight has at most 7 cubes. Adding 2 to Str, 2 to items (to give 5 Str), and 1 to Boots (for 5 move), leaves only 2 cubes remaining. 2 walls in the middle burn cubes 6 and 7 (for Ancient Map), leaving only 1 encounter (if the Knight can reach you)...if you added a Dark tile in the middle using Wrath, that's their turn, and they couldn't even cast Shield. Adding a Dark tile right next to them (so they must use their "free" Encounter immediately) means they have to use an extra cube on Perception to even allow themselves to move (even if they can't reach you to use it).

If you instead choose to Surface at the nearest Crystal with the Knight right next to you (using all their Encounters to Attack), best of luck to you.

When I've played Knight vs Dragon, it wasn't very common for my Knight to reach 55 Grit before the Dragon was ready to Surface, since the Dragon would do things like Swat "Past Plunder"-placed Treasures onto Dark tiles (forcing me to use Encounters to reveal them). The Dragon would always place the next Treasure where they could reach it in the next turn but the Knight couldn't (at least not while still attacking the Dragon). With Goblins, I think they place the Treasures, but then go Goblin-hunting (use Hunger cubes to add Wakefulness) instead.
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C&H Schmidt
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I don't think you can infer a lack of balance from one game -- in our two games the dragon was always the one furthest ahead (but I don't think the dragon is too powerful; just maybe harder to stop for inexperienced players).
It is not that easy for the knight to become very powerful quicker than the dragon can move its cubes, and I am sure that won't happen every game.
I do think that the dragon has to avoid early game hits in order to be able to surface and escape successfully.
 
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Ste M
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So wrath just removes lit tile right?
 
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Kyle
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Stefano1234 wrote:
So wrath just removes lit tile right?
Wrath removes whatever it hits.

Some of the removed tiles will get filled back in because there will be open edges, but not necessarily all of them.
 
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Peter Rabinowitz
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On the topic of balance...

Tonight's game ended with the Knight having smashed four crystal tokens, the cave having collapsed four crystal tiles, and the Goblins doing a victory dance over the Knight's corpse.


My wife played the Knight her last 3 games so finally had the hang of it. She maxed out her grit pretty easily and had treasures, too.

I had played the Golblins twice before, horribly, and even blundered the first two turns this time but clearly I got the hang of it by the end. I feel I made good use of secrets to keep one step ahead.

Wooooo! So fun! When the Cave smashed the fourth crystal I was all, "Don't flip over any more or we're all dead!"
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Peter Rabinowitz
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And tonight the dragon was surfaced and one wing away from the entrance, the knight had one health left, and the knight killed the dragon on a roll of the die. Very close game.
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