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Star Trek: Frontiers» Forums » Rules

Subject: why would you ever want to take a die and not use it? rss

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The rules seem to emphasize that you can take a data die from the core and place it next to you without using it, and if you don't use it, you must return it back unrolled.

Is this just a special case of the reverting rule? Or are there actual game states where taking a die and not using it is an actual meaningful move?

(I mean, given the reverting rule, you can already take as many dice as you want from the core, and put them back without re-rolling, at any time, and as many times as you want, during your turn. You can also take any other game components as long as you do not reveal any hidden information and revert the game to its prior state before committing a formal move. The fact that the rules seem to make a special case repeatedly about one die makes me suspect I am not understanding the rules correctly...)

Another example of this kind of thing is on the bottom of p.4: "You cannot, however, use [motivation skill] after your last turn in a Round." Motivation is the skill that lets you draw two cards and gains a data token.

Under what circumstances would a player want to use this skill after their last turn in a round? Or, does this rule simply exist to remind players that there is no longer any benefit to using motivation if they wait this long?
 
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Mark K.
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Yesterday I had three black dice in the data core while playing solo. This rule prevented me from rerolling a black die in hopes of getting something more useful for subsequent turns.

Same goes for multiplayer where you could use a reroll to setup the next player (coop) or prevent the next player from getting a useful die (conquest).
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Thanks for the reply. However, my question was not about rerolling (I understand that part), but about putting the die next to you.

Basically, what is the difference between the die existing next to you (but not actually powering anything) and just staying in the core? Aren't these two game states exactly equivalent? Why would you ever want to take the die and not immediately put it on a card? (Even when trying things out and then reverting.)

Also, what is so special about dice that we need that rule for them but not, say, for crew cards. (I. E., "a player can take a crew card from the crew offer. If the player does not end up paying for the crew card, return it back to the crew offer in the same state you found it". Why does this rule exist for dice but not for crew members or any other component?)
 
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Jay Jones
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I think you're looking at this the wrong way. The rule about returning the die has nothing whatsoever to do with reverting - it's about the die re-roll at the end of your turn as part of cleanup. Usually, you take a die, use it as data to power an effect, and then re-roll it when returning it to the core. What this particular rule is saying is that if you take a die from the core and end up not using it (maybe you take it with a plan to use it to power an effect after your move, and then reveal new info before using it, and then realize you don't need it or can't use it with the current board state), you don't randomize the die before returning it to the core at the end of your turn - you have to use the data to power an effect to be able to randomize it at the end of your turn. Admittedly, taking the die before you need to use it is suboptimal play, but it could happen.
In my opinion, the intent of the rule is what Mark was explaining. If you have a core full of black data, you can't take one (even though you can't use it) and then re-roll it before returning it to the core at the end of your turn. Essentially, you can't manipulate the state of the core without actually using the die as data.
 
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Andrew Parks
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Yes, that is the purpose of the rule. The reason this is a little different from Mage Knight (which requires use of the die immediately) is because of the purple Risk result. We wanted players to be able to choose the purple die, re-roll it, and then decide later how to use the new color.

But then abuses during playtesting, especially co-op, helped us to come up with the rule about not re-rolling if the die is not used.

Andrew
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