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Subject: Do I have to land troops in every system I pass through? rss

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Russell Scherker
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Say, for example, I have ships and ground troops in Ilum and I learn that the rebel base is on Dantooine. The rebels have ground troops but no ships in Mygeeto. I don't want to waste time fighting the ground troops in Mygeeto... can I just move my ships carrying my troops to Mygeeto system but avoid a wasteful fight by never offloading my troops?

In other words, do I always have to land my troops on planets in every system I enter?

Would the answer change if the rebel player HAD ships in Mygeeto?
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Mark Chiddicks
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No you don't, and a rebel player usually wouldn't (as rebels cannot subjugate systems).

There's no issue with flying on through systems without landing on the planet at all.
 
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Craig S.
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Yes, unless the system is destroyed, any ground units entering the system go directly onto the planet and into the ground theatre.
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Craig S.
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KinginAmber wrote:
No you don't, and a rebel player usually wouldn't (as rebels cannot subjugate systems).

There's no issue with flying on through systems without landing on the planet at all.


Sorry, but this is incorrect.

Moving Units wrote:
After a player moves units to a system, if the other
faction has units in the system, combat occurs.


So, combat must occur immediately after movement is completed if there are opposing units in the system and they are sharing one or both theatres, because...

Combat wrote:
Combat is only resolved if both players have units in the same theater.


What made you believe otherwise?
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Frank Pelkofer
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csouth154 wrote:
Yes, unless the system is destroyed, any ground units entering the system go directly onto the planet and into the ground theatre.


You're only obligated to fight 1 round of combat and then you can retreat (since you have a leader in the combat). Although, you might not be able to retreat anywhere you want to go.
 
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Mattias Elfström
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csouth154 wrote:


Combat wrote:
Combat is only resolved if both players have units in the same theater.


What made you believe otherwise?


Yes, that would be interesting to hear.
 
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Clinton Rice
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I don't think it's that
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believes otherwise. I think he just answered the question in the title of the thread, rather than the question in the body of the post.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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KoalaXav wrote:
I don't think it's that
Mark Chiddicks
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believes otherwise. I think he just answered the question in the title of the thread, rather than the question in the body of the post.


He answers the question in the title of the thread incorrectly too!

Unless he thought the title was asking if you must leave behind troops, but that seems unlikely.
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Doug DeMoss
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KinginAmber wrote:
No you don't, and a rebel player usually wouldn't (as rebels cannot subjugate systems).

There's no issue with flying on through systems without landing on the planet at all.


The Rebels DO, however, have the Cut Supply Lines Objective which can be done by landing troops on Imperial systems. So it DOES happen.
 
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Clinton Rice
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Clipper wrote:
KoalaXav wrote:
I don't think it's that
Mark Chiddicks
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believes otherwise. I think he just answered the question in the title of the thread, rather than the question in the body of the post.


He answers the question in the title of the thread incorrectly too!

Unless he thought the title was asking if you must leave behind troops, but that seems unlikely.


Not too unlikely. Until I read the post, that is exactly what I thought was being asked from the title of the thread. He may have thought the same thing and didn't read the post fully.
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Thomas with Subtrendy
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Don't think of it as "loading" your troops on your ships, because technically that's not what really happens. Think of it more as "carrying". Your ships can "carry" your troops from the planet that they are on to an adjacent one, but troops are pretty much always stored on the ground.
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Russell Scherker
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Thank you everyone for the answers. I suspected you had to place your troops on the planet, but I was hoping there was something I had missed.

A bit unrealistic, but undoubtedly it's a game balance thing.
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Mark Chiddicks
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csouth154 wrote:
KinginAmber wrote:
No you don't, and a rebel player usually wouldn't (as rebels cannot subjugate systems).

There's no issue with flying on through systems without landing on the planet at all.


Sorry, but this is incorrect.

Moving Units wrote:
After a player moves units to a system, if the other
faction has units in the system, combat occurs.


So, combat must occur immediately after movement is completed if there are opposing units in the system and they are sharing one or both theatres, because...

Combat wrote:
Combat is only resolved if both players have units in the same theater.


What made you believe otherwise?



Sorry- I misunderstood the question. You don't have to LEAVE them there, you can pick them all up again on the next move, but yes, for some strange reason you are forced to land all your ground troops even though the ships you have can carry them - I think that's a stupid rule, it adds nothing to the game and I'll ignore it. Landing troops should always be optional, but if you leave them on your ships they die if the ship dies!

Can anyone see any game balance issue with house-ruling it this way?
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James Cheng
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KinginAmber wrote:
csouth154 wrote:
KinginAmber wrote:
No you don't, and a rebel player usually wouldn't (as rebels cannot subjugate systems).

There's no issue with flying on through systems without landing on the planet at all.


Sorry, but this is incorrect.

Moving Units wrote:
After a player moves units to a system, if the other
faction has units in the system, combat occurs.


So, combat must occur immediately after movement is completed if there are opposing units in the system and they are sharing one or both theatres, because...

Combat wrote:
Combat is only resolved if both players have units in the same theater.


What made you believe otherwise?



Sorry- I misunderstood the question. You don't have to LEAVE them there, you can pick them all up again on the next move, but yes, for some strange reason you are forced to land all your ground troops even though the ships you have can carry them - I think that's a stupid rule, it adds nothing to the game and I'll ignore it. Landing troops should always be optional, but if you leave them on your ships they die if the ship dies!

Can anyone see any game balance issue with house-ruling it this way?


It forces you to consider your movement of your troops. I wouldn't say it didn't adds anything to the game. In fact, your house rule would be more beneficial for the Empire as they would not have to land more than 1 Stormtrooper on any System. They can minimize their loss these way while also denying the rebel from ever complete the "Crippling Blow" objective. And also some rebel missions.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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KinginAmber wrote:
Can anyone see any game balance issue with house-ruling it this way?


It adds quite a few weird timing issues. For example, the Imperial Player thinks they are moving through a System and they say they are leaving troops on board. They then discover through some effect that the system happened to be the Rebel Base. When and how can they decide that they now do want to land their troops there?

Or, you've got ground units in space. The Rebel player resolves a Mission or Action card that puts Rebel troops onto the planet in that system and to trigger an attack if other ground units are there. Is there a battle? If the Imperial player wants a battle, how do they start it? Do they need to activate the system they are in to do so? Can they do that if they already have a leader in the system?

Other questions come up, such as can you land some but not all of your troops? If you do, and the small garrison of troops are attacked, can you land the others into the battle or is it too late? Can you deploy ground units into ships?

Also don't forget you also have to add rules about structures not being able to follow any of the rules you've just created for other ground units.

So perhaps, balance-wise, you aren't creating any issues (although some good ones were mentioned in the post prior to mine). However, you have just created a plethora of new rules for yourself. Your variant will need to figure out how to solve all those rules quirks that might come up.
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Craig S.
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KinginAmber wrote:
csouth154 wrote:
KinginAmber wrote:
No you don't, and a rebel player usually wouldn't (as rebels cannot subjugate systems).

There's no issue with flying on through systems without landing on the planet at all.


Sorry, but this is incorrect.

Moving Units wrote:
After a player moves units to a system, if the other
faction has units in the system, combat occurs.


So, combat must occur immediately after movement is completed if there are opposing units in the system and they are sharing one or both theatres, because...

Combat wrote:
Combat is only resolved if both players have units in the same theater.


What made you believe otherwise?



Sorry- I misunderstood the question. You don't have to LEAVE them there, you can pick them all up again on the next move, but yes, for some strange reason you are forced to land all your ground troops even though the ships you have can carry them - I think that's a stupid rule, it adds nothing to the game and I'll ignore it. Landing troops should always be optional, but if you leave them on your ships they die if the ship dies!

Can anyone see any game balance issue with house-ruling it this way?


I can think of too many to count. I wouldn't recommend it.
 
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Mark Chiddicks
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Clipper wrote:
KinginAmber wrote:
Can anyone see any game balance issue with house-ruling it this way?


It adds quite a few weird timing issues. For example, the Imperial Player thinks they are moving through a System and they say they are leaving troops on board. They then discover through some effect that the system happened to be the Rebel Base. When and how can they decide that they now do want to land their troops there?

Or, you've got ground units in space. The Rebel player resolves a Mission or Action card that puts Rebel troops onto the planet in that system and to trigger an attack if other ground units are there. Is there a battle? If the Imperial player wants a battle, how do they start it? Do they need to activate the system they are in to do so? Can they do that if they already have a leader in the system?

Other questions come up, such as can you land some but not all of your troops? If you do, and the small garrison of troops are attacked, can you land the others into the battle or is it too late? Can you deploy ground units into ships?

Also don't forget you also have to add rules about structures not being able to follow any of the rules you've just created for other ground units.

So perhaps, balance-wise, you aren't creating any issues (although some good ones were mentioned in the post prior to mine). However, you have just created a plethora of new rules for yourself. Your variant will need to figure out how to solve all those rules quirks that might come up.


I do agree that it opens a can of worms - but the current rule is very unsatisfying because its so thematically weak. That troops can stay on ship when its in a destroyed system but not when its orbiting a planet is just clunky and has no 'in game' explanation I can think of - its just there because rules.

I would allow a player to land as many troops from orbit as he or she likes once when arriving at the system, once when a battle starts and once at the start of the turn. That at least is a simple rule and gets rid of timing issues. Any forces still on ships that are destroyed are lost (meaning they need to be allocated to specific ships - but the same should be true in destroyed systems anyway). Ground forces can only be evacuated back to ships as part of a retreat.
 
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Craig S.
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You must do what you feel is right, of course...
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Craig S.
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KinginAmber wrote:
- its just there because rules.


All games are what they are because rules. This, in particular, is a big one. It seems like changing it would change the face of the game.

If you want thematic reasoning, consider another aspect of the game: the fact that, in most cases, game mechanics limit units to moving only one system away from their starting place each round. Why? Well, the actual answer is, again, "rules"; but the first thematic reason that comes up is time. How much time is a round? Dunno, but weeks, at least, seems likely. So, perhaps the troop landing is out of necessity. Your units have got to refuel and resupply...or fight for the privilege.

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Thomas with Subtrendy
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Thematically, I don't think it's that bad. The Empire is going to want to exert its will wherever it goes, so of course it'll land troops on each planet. Actually, as an Imp player, I generally want to leave a stormtrooper on each planet, and you might as well drop your whole army in case the Rebel base is there. You don't even have to think of it as a ground battle. Perhaps a Rebel strike team boarded a Star Destroyer and are engaging the stormtroopers inside.
 
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Clipper wrote:
KinginAmber wrote:
Can anyone see any game balance issue with house-ruling it this way?


It adds quite a few weird timing issues. For example, the Imperial Player thinks they are moving through a System and they say they are leaving troops on board. They then discover through some effect that the system happened to be the Rebel Base. When and how can they decide that they now do want to land their troops there?

Or, you've got ground units in space. The Rebel player resolves a Mission or Action card that puts Rebel troops onto the planet in that system and to trigger an attack if other ground units are there. Is there a battle? If the Imperial player wants a battle, how do they start it? Do they need to activate the system they are in to do so? Can they do that if they already have a leader in the system?

Other questions come up, such as can you land some but not all of your troops? If you do, and the small garrison of troops are attacked, can you land the others into the battle or is it too late? Can you deploy ground units into ships?

Also don't forget you also have to add rules about structures not being able to follow any of the rules you've just created for other ground units.

So perhaps, balance-wise, you aren't creating any issues (although some good ones were mentioned in the post prior to mine). However, you have just created a plethora of new rules for yourself. Your variant will need to figure out how to solve all those rules quirks that might come up.


You're 200% right, but I'm still with Kingin it does not make sense neither thematically nor tactically.

I had this situation the other day where I (as empire player) had the rebel base almost located, so the rebel player changed location with RM. Then, to GTFO his old base he had to go over a planet with just an assault carrier (that he promptly destroyed) but a shitton of empire ground forces. So I didn't even bat an eye when he did not land even if it would had been to my advantage, it seemed totally logical.

But again you're right it can create a lot of weird situations. So even if applying the written rules would be the most sensible thing to do, I guess I would house-rule like...
-You are forced to land the troops unless there are enemy ground forces and you specifically say you don't want to do battle. Otherwise players may not land even if there are no enemy troops to avoid being hit with an insurrection or planetary assault, and that smells fishy and lame to me.
-If you land, you land ALL of them (for simplicity and to avoid things like landing only 2 empire soldiers so an insurrection cannot destroy enough troops to qualify for an objective, which again looks like cheating to me).
-If you don't land and afterwards you would like too (cos you later learn it's the rebel base, or the other player somehow reduced his presence there)... tough luck, you need to wait till next round and activate the system again.
 
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Craig S.
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Honestly, if you house rule this one, you may as well write an entirely new rule set. It would change the game that much.

Games aren't ever going to make complete sense thematically. Think about another hugely important rule: leaders locking units into a system. It makes zero thematic sense but changing it would ruin the game. The rule we are discussing is the same.
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Niall Smyth
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This makes perfect sense thematically. You don't control a bunch of robots. You control an evil empire, dedicated to conquest and tyranny. And one 'turn' must represent quite a lot of time. So when you go to a planet, your units don't just leave Rebels sitting there. They fight! And if you find an empty planet, you subjugate it, resupply, and refit.

The Rebels, of course, fight to free the people! That's what they do.

The same approach makes sense of the rule that you can't move units out if your leader is present. That leader has them running around , doing minor tasks for their side.

These leaders and units aren't just sock puppets for the player that guides them. They have some life of their own. Can you imagine what Vader would do to someone who just sailed their Star Destroyer and ATAT division past a Rebel outpost?
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Three Headed Monkey
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Simplicity in game mechanics is probably the reason why the rules are as they are. Essentially the planets in systems are just visual candy. They actually don't need to be there as units just enter the system and fight if enemy units belonging to the same theater are there.
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I'm with the people on the "thematically wrong" side. Although I won't house rule anything, as I agree that the impact on the game can be quite importante for some rare cases where it feels wrong.

In my case, today it happened to me that I wanted to transport some troops from from Mandalore to Malastare with my Death Star, while blowing Kashyyk on my way there. Imperial Operations Time Optimization, you know.

I found disturbing that I had to risk the live of some of the best shooters in the galaxy just to blow up the planet afterwards, and transport them up again to the Death Star just before turning them into dust along with the rebel scum.

Might try "keeping" troops in orbit (and dying with their ship if it happens) some day. But for now, I believe that if it's in the rules, it'll be for a reason.
 
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