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Subject: Demand paper ballots, people . . . rss

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I see you...
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I've always been of the opinion that electonic voting machines should produce a paper back up copy for manual recounting, if needed.
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Steven Woodcock
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Drew1365 wrote:
I guess we'll find out in November who Putin really wants as President.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fbi-says-foreign-hackers-penetrat...

Quote:
The FBI has uncovered evidence that foreign hackers penetrated two state election databases in recent weeks, prompting the bureau to warn election officials across the country to take new steps to enhance the security of their computer systems, according to federal and state law enforcement officials.

The FBI warning, contained in a “flash” alert from the FBI’s Cyber Division, a copy of which was obtained by Yahoo News, comes amid heightened concerns among U.S. intelligence officials about the possibility of cyberintrusions, potentially by Russian state-sponsored hackers, aimed at disrupting the November elections.

Those concerns prompted Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson to convene a conference call with state election officials on Aug. 15, in which he offered his department’s help to make state voting systems more secure, including providing federal cyber security experts to scan for vulnerabilities, according to a “readout” of the call released by the department.


I'm a big fan of the paper ballot.


Ferret
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Drew1365 wrote:
I guess we'll find out in November who Putin really wants as President.


You heard it here first folks- whoever wins the election *cough* Hillary *cough* will only do so because Putin intervened; it is literally impossible now for the election results to be legitimate.
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Bitter and Acerbic Harridan
Because we've never had issues with paper ballots before.


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verandi wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
I guess we'll find out in November who Putin really wants as President.


You heard it here first folks- whoever wins the election *cough* Hillary *cough* will only do so because Putin intervened; it is literally impossible now for the election results to be legitimate.


Obvi.
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Carl Parsons
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We should make Putin have to get a voter ID. That will solve everything.
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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verandi wrote:
You heard it here first folks- whoever wins the election *cough* Hillary *cough* will only do so because Putin intervened; it is literally impossible now for the election results to be legitimate.
This just proves how smart Trump is and why lots of people say should be President. He already said that if he loses in PA it is because the election is rigged, now we know why.
 
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David Dearlove
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she2 wrote:
Because we've never had issues with paper ballots before.



Not a paper ballot. A punched card.
 
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DavidDearlove wrote:
she2 wrote:
Because we've never had issues with paper ballots before.



Not a paper ballot. A punched card.


Did you actually envision a voting system where we physically write in ballots? That's not prone to manipulation at all!
 
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Drew1365 wrote:
I guess we'll find out in November who Putin really wants as President.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fbi-says-foreign-hackers-penetrat...

Quote:
The FBI has uncovered evidence that foreign hackers penetrated two state election databases in recent weeks, prompting the bureau to warn election officials across the country to take new steps to enhance the security of their computer systems, according to federal and state law enforcement officials.

The FBI warning, contained in a “flash” alert from the FBI’s Cyber Division, a copy of which was obtained by Yahoo News, comes amid heightened concerns among U.S. intelligence officials about the possibility of cyberintrusions, potentially by Russian state-sponsored hackers, aimed at disrupting the November elections.

Those concerns prompted Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson to convene a conference call with state election officials on Aug. 15, in which he offered his department’s help to make state voting systems more secure, including providing federal cyber security experts to scan for vulnerabilities, according to a “readout” of the call released by the department.


But this is only relevant for the people voting, right Drew?

As we all know, principled conservatives like yourself are sitting this one out, because Johnson's not a real libertarian, Trump is a stooge for Clinton forced on you by the media, and Clinton murdered Vince Foster.
 
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Steven Woodcock
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she2 wrote:
Because we've never had issues with paper ballots before.




Yes, there was a bit of trouble running a ballot counting exercise there.

Fortunately, paper != chads.


Ferret
 
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Drew1365 wrote:
I would think both parties would want to ensure that the election results accurately reflect the will of the people. I know that Democrats have not often cared about such things. I'm not surprised to see them thinking that this post is all about Trump and not about hackers screwing with results.

But Democrats seem to have lost their minds.


Gotcha, this is just you genuinely being concerned about interference in the integrity of our election by a foreign power. Of course, this was just an irrational "Red Scare" when a consensus of intelligence experts concluded that Russia was behind the DNC hack.

Maybe we can call this "Drew's Dilemma"- When you spend all of your time carrying water for Trump talking points and derailing criticism of him with tu quoque attacks on Hillary, people have this irrational assumption that you're a partisan Trump supporter.
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Chapel
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I ask for paper ballots at all the voting locations I hit on election day.
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Steven Woodcock
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glundee1 wrote:

As we all know, principled conservatives like yourself are sitting this one out, because Johnson's not a real libertarian, Trump is a stooge for Clinton forced on you by the media, and Clinton murdered Vince Foster.


I don't think we ever got triable evidence regarding her involvement with Foster's death.



Ferret
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Ferretman wrote:
glundee1 wrote:

As we all know, principled conservatives like yourself are sitting this one out, because Johnson's not a real libertarian, Trump is a stooge for Clinton forced on you by the media, and Clinton murdered Vince Foster.


I don't think we ever got triable evidence regarding her involvement with Foster's death.



Ferret


Bwahahahaahha laugh
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Christopher Dearlove
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she2 wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
she2 wrote:
Because we've never had issues with paper ballots before.



Not a paper ballot. A punched card.


Did you actually envision a voting system where we physically write in ballots? That's not prone to manipulation at all!


We mark an X in a box. On paper. Counted by hand. It works.

(OK, we don't tend to vote for as many things at once. There is an intermediate case - machine and paper not as backup but as what's checked by voter and then put in box and counted.)
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Christopher Dearlove
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Incidentally it's typical of our resident right wingers that on hearing that ballots are insecure (something that anyone who follows security matters has known for many years) they go straight to piling on Clinton. Despite the clearer closer links between Trump and Putin. (Jumping straight to piling on Trump would also be a mistake though.)
 
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I see you...
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she2 wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
she2 wrote:
Because we've never had issues with paper ballots before.



Not a paper ballot. A punched card.


Did you actually envision a voting system where we physically write in ballots? That's not prone to manipulation at all!


I envision a voting system where the voter receives a physical printed copy of their voting on an electronic voting machine. The ballot can then be reviewed by the voter (and shredded if misprinted).

After confirming that their votes are correct (both on the sheet and on the computer), the paper ballot is placed in a locked box.

In the event of a recount, the ballots can be hand counted (on a case by case basis, if needed)
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I see you...
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Of course I also think Voting should be held in the summer (after summer school is out so schools can be used) and be a three day weekend affair (Friday, Saturday and Sunday)
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I see you...
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Dearlove wrote:
she2 wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
she2 wrote:
Because we've never had issues with paper ballots before.



Not a paper ballot. A punched card.


Did you actually envision a voting system where we physically write in ballots? That's not prone to manipulation at all!


We mark an X in a box. On paper. Counted by hand. It works.

(OK, we don't tend to vote for as many things at once. There is an intermediate case - machine and paper not as backup but as what's checked by voter and then put in box and counted.)


Four times as many voting in the US vs the UK also.
 
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Damian
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There is nothing inherently superior about a paper ballot. Electronic systems can be just as, if not more, secure and auditable than paper systems. Demanding paper ballots be continued ad infinitum is like demanding the Navy continue to sail sloops because those newfangled steam engines are unreliable and can blow up.

You should be demanding better, open electronic systems from competing vendors.
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J.D. Hall
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Meh. In my backwards, inbred, overrun-by-hillbillies state, we have a paper ballot (fill in the gap in a separated arrow), slide it into the machine and get a receipt. Plus, it's got a counter so you can see how many people have submitted ballots at your precinct.

And the cards are kept for three election cycles before being destroyed.

Yeah, we're the morons....
 
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Ferretman wrote:
[q="she2"]Because we've never had issues with paper ballots before.


Yes, there was a bit of trouble running a ballot counting exercise there.

Fortunately, paper != chads.
Ferret


Hanging chads, Apparently medicene can treat that these days under Obamha care.
 
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Drew1365 wrote:
I guess we'll find out in November who Putin really wants as President.

"red scare" mode?
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Andy Leighton
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Dispaminite wrote:
Dearlove wrote:
she2 wrote:

Did you actually envision a voting system where we physically write in ballots? That's not prone to manipulation at all!


We mark an X in a box. On paper. Counted by hand. It works.

(OK, we don't tend to vote for as many things at once. There is an intermediate case - machine and paper not as backup but as what's checked by voter and then put in box and counted.)


Four times as many voting in the US vs the UK also.


That doesn't really make a difference. Counting votes is a totally distributable process. Although you are counting on a state level in terms of working out who the electors are, there is nothing to prevent smaller counting units who will report up to the larger level. This is similar to how we ran the Brexit referendum - counting was in smaller wards, which reported up to cities and then to regions.
 
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