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Subject: Using salt water to check dice balance rss

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An Ars Technica article brings up putting plastic, d20s in salt water, and seeing if you get a variety of sides facing up (probably balanced), or if it's consistently the same side or few sides (not balanced). The idea with salt water is so that any dice that would sink would now float because it now makes the die lighter than the medium it's in.

Anybody try this? Wondering what your experiences are.
http://arstechnica.com/the-multiverse/2016/08/how-fair-is-yo...


I've definitely heard just rolling it by hand as a way to manually test for balance, or mechanizing it with an automatic roller + means to read and record results, but I've never seen this prior to now (evidently, they do this with golf balls for other purposes too).
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Paul DeStefano
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This is insane.
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More like insanely awesome.
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Kip Kwiatkowski
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Stop it! That tickles! :P
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*watches all his dice float away into the ocean*

cry
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Andrew Brown
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i've heard of this but have never tried it.

after having watched the video, i think it's a much clearer example of finding an unbalanced die, since it will consistently float to the same number


rather than rolling a die many times and recording all of the results, you can just check probably 2-3 times in the salt water solution and will know
 
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Drew
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Need to find all my 20 weighted die before my next meet up.
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Andrew Brown
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SoundCity wrote:
Need to find all my 20 weighted die before my next meet up.
'20 again?! HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?' /totally shocked voice
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M Smith

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Please can someone test the red dice of doom inSpace Hulk: Death Angel – The Card Game
I dare you.
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Kip Kwiatkowski
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dr00 wrote:
SoundCity wrote:
Need to find all my 20 weighted die before my next meet up.
'20 again?! HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?' /totally shocked voice
*slips laxatives into the drink* Explosive diarrhea again?! HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?
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Henry Allen
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ackmondual wrote:
An Ars Technica article brings up putting plastic, d20s in salt water, and seeing if you get a variety of sides facing up (probably balanced), or if it's consistently the same side or few sides (not balanced). The idea with salt water is so that any dice that would sink would now float because it now makes the die lighter than the medium it's in.

Anybody try this? Wondering what your experiences are.
http://arstechnica.com/the-multiverse/2016/08/how-fair-is-yo...


I've definitely heard just rolling it by hand as a way to manually test for balance, or mechanizing it with an automatic roller + means to read and record results, but I've never seen this prior to now (evidently, they do this with golf balls for other purposes too).


I tried this last year after hearing about it for the first time. I made some salt water and my die sank like a rock. So I added some salt and some more salt and some more salt and it still sank. Then I added some more and it still sank. Eventually I had enough salt that I was starting to wonder if the wife would notice the missing salt. I was also having trouble getting the salt to absorb into the water, there was a big pile on the bottom of the glass for the die to sit on when it sank.

So yeah, maybe I did something wrong. I'm pretty sure it was a plastic die.
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CARL SKUTSCH
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But Heisenberg...

What if the salt water chemically interacts with the various die faces (each with different indentations and paint pipping) to different degrees so that however your die was weighted before now it's weighed ever so slightly differently. So however it was biased (or not biased) before, now that it's being observed in salt water it behaves differently. (Or perhaps not because of chemical reactions but out of embarrassment for being involved in such a silly experiment?)
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Rob Byers
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KlydeFrog wrote:



I tried this last year after hearing about it for the first time. I made some salt water and my die sank like a rock. So I added some salt and some more salt and some more salt and it still sank. Then I added some more and it still sank. Eventually I had enough salt that I was starting to wonder if the wife would notice the missing salt. I was also having trouble getting the salt to absorb into the water, there was a big pile on the bottom of the glass for the die to sit on when it sank.

So yeah, maybe I did something wrong. I'm pretty sure it was a plastic die.


Solubility is about 36 g/100 g of water so you were just hitting the wall.
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Warren Adams
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r2byers wrote:
KlydeFrog wrote:
I tried this last year after hearing about it for the first time. I made some salt water and my die sank like a rock. So I added some salt and some more salt and some more salt and it still sank. Then I added some more and it still sank. Eventually I had enough salt that I was starting to wonder if the wife would notice the missing salt. I was also having trouble getting the salt to absorb into the water, there was a big pile on the bottom of the glass for the die to sit on when it sank.
So yeah, maybe I did something wrong. I'm pretty sure it was a plastic die.
Solubility is about 36 g/100 g of water so you were just hitting the wall.
Just a little more and your dice can stand on the salt pile.
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David Leach
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Gamelyn Games did this to see how balanced the bullet dice they created for Tiny Epic Western were. There was a video somewhere, I'm sure someone could find it.
 
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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Re: All this dice talk has got me concerned!
 
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JP Ginley
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AHA ! that's why I left Vegas on last visit with crap taste in my mouth !
Next time I will pepper my bets on the tables
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Kevin Keefe
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I've tried this. All of my dice are Chessex dice. I found that the majority of my clear jewel dice are balanced, where my opaque ones are not. All my opaque dice favor one facing or point. On that note, d12s and d20s are actually weighted/unbalanced to a point, not a number facing, making any one of 6 numbers more likely to be rolled on a d20.

I also found that I literally could not dissolve enough salt into the water to float my larger opaque dice.

This bothered me enough that I actually purchased four Gamescience d20s at Gen Con this year to replace my normal Infinity dice.
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Geoffrey Burrell
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I've never heard of this for dice. This is similar though to checking if some jewelry is fake by putting it into solution.
 
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Raf Cordero
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Karadek wrote:
I've tried this. All of my dice are Chessex dice. I found that the majority of my clear jewel dice are balanced, where my opaque ones are not. All my opaque dice favor one facing or point. On that note, d12s and d20s are actually weighted/unbalanced to a point, not a number facing, making any one of 6 numbers more likely to be rolled on a d20.


I have heard that this is because Opaque dice are more likely to have air bubbles inside. Clear dice can't have them because you would see them.

I am not a die-entist though so not sure if that is true.
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Kevin Keefe
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captainraffi wrote:
I have heard that this is because Opaque dice are more likely to have air bubbles inside. Clear dice can't have them because you would see them.


That's true. One of my friends crushed one of his d6s with a hammer for failing him for the last time, and we could see air pockets in it.
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Jeremy Shelton
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Karadek wrote:
[q="captainraffi"]One of my friends crushed one of his d6s with a hammer for failing him for the last time.


Did he do a Darth Vader voice when he stated why he was crushing the dice?
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Kip Kwiatkowski
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Karadek wrote:
captainraffi wrote:
I have heard that this is because Opaque dice are more likely to have air bubbles inside. Clear dice can't have them because you would see them.


That's true. One of my friends crushed one of his d6s with a hammer for failing him for the last time, and we could see air pockets in it.


If you've ever played Illuminati, you'll know it is an INSANE cutthroat game, as in it can make friends fight.

We were playing and I was blocking everything my one friend was doing, just cause. There is a rule that is you didn't acquire any groups by the 3rd turn you lose. Well, 3rd turn comes around, I block him, other people boost him, and then he has a 50/50 chance of succeeding and staying in the game. He fails the roll....

He is normally a quiet, shy, mild mannered guy...

He grabs the dice, screams "F*CK!!" and throws the dice across the basement.

Then he composes himself, apologizes, and sits back down; while we all stare at him.
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Robb Melenyk
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kgk4569 wrote:
Karadek wrote:
captainraffi wrote:
I have heard that this is because Opaque dice are more likely to have air bubbles inside. Clear dice can't have them because you would see them.


That's true. One of my friends crushed one of his d6s with a hammer for failing him for the last time, and we could see air pockets in it.


If you've ever played Illuminati, you'll know it is an INSANE cutthroat game, as in it can make friends fight.

We were playing and I was blocking everything my one friend was doing, just cause. There is a rule that is you didn't acquire any groups by the 3rd turn you lose. Well, 3rd turn comes around, I block him, other people boost him, and then he has a 50/50 chance of succeeding and staying in the game. He fails the roll....

He is normally a quiet, shy, mild mannered guy...

He grabs the dice, screams "F*CK!!" and throws the dice across the basement.

Then he composes himself, apologizes, and sits back down; while we all stare at him.


My Wife's father threw the pinochle deck into the fire after a several game losses in a row. He was pretty casual. He was next to deal, cleaned up the cards and tossed them in. Said "I guess we can't use those cards any more" or something like that.
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