$30.00
TechRaptor Travis
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
TLDR: Using everything is too much, in my humble opinion.

We've played through four successful campaigns, with a few others failed on the way. For this campaign, my wife decided she wanted to use 'everything' and, so, we are using everything.

Here's what our Timeline looks like as of LY 15...
Spoiler (click to reveal)


My thoughts in no particular order.

Just a glimpse at LY 8 should show you what you are in for if you decide to use everything. It took us over an hour just to get through the story events that year.

Gorm is a fun quarry with a diverse set of resources; which is rather necessary courtesy of Gorm Climate. The Gorm is a great alternative to the White Lion. We weren't able to get rid of Gorm Climate until LY 14, and we have WAY more crafted gear sitting in settlement storage than any other campaign because of it. Initially I was thrilled at an early alternative to the Zanbato (Rib Blade) but, at this point, I'd rather just go with Zanbato, as the Rib Blade takes experience (in the form of +Luck) to really excel, and we've had extreme difficulty keeping experienced hunters alive.

Manhunter is pure fun. I'll probably use him in every campaign going forward.

Flower Knight is another winner. I don't see the need to hunt him more than a few times, but his fight is interesting and the gear is really neat, if expensive...
Spoiler (click to reveal)
...especially the Vespertine Bow, which you buy on credit.


Lion Knight is a really interesting fight, but his risk/reward is out of whack.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
We are about to fight the LvL3 Lion Knight in LY15, but, courtesy of events, we had to send out four new people, who, even decked out in our best gear, can only wound on 10, 10, 9 and 9 respectively due to his 15 toughness. That's not great odds when he has 21hp. If we lose this fight we will face him again on LY19...right next to the LvL3 Slenderman.


Slenderman = hard mode. The Slenderman is a fun fight with neat, thematic mechanics, although he makes the game quite a bit more difficult than it is with the standard arrangement of Nemesis monsters. His risk/reward feels right though.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The LvL2 Slenderman fight in LY13 killed 3 of our best 4 via bad event rolls. We managed to squeak out a victory with our final Survivor (our only experienced guy left) dealing 8 wounds over 4 rounds courtesy of miraculous rolls. It was heartbreaking and epic at the same time, but makes us realize that another LvL2 in LY16, and a LvL3 in LY19 are essentially going to be TPK's at this point.


Dung Beetle Knight is awesome. This is another that I'll use every time.

Spidicules is a lot less awesome than I though it was going to be, especially since...
Spoiler (click to reveal)
...it fully replaces the Antelope, making some things, like Cooking, essentially worthless. The fight is a lot of fun, but the miniature is actually kind of a pain in the butt to use, and the things you give up by having her replace the Antelope don't seem to be worth what you gain. The Antelope has always been a supplemental fight for us, but the Spidicules needs to be hunted multiple times, in multiples of 2, so it feels a bit out of place replacing the Antelope with this much other stuff going on. It would be much better in a more pared down campaign where you could devote more focus on it.


The Sunstalker is fun, and the power level and risk/reward feel right, especially if you are tired of hunting the Phoenix.

The Lonely Tree has shown up as Terrain once, but nothing outside of that.

The Vagabond armor set is pretty sweet, especially if you have a Survivor turn Narcissistic.

We've yet to hunt the Dragon King and the Lion God. With so much going on, it's hard not to dabble in each different quarry, but we've had to be really selective in order to actually craft effective gear, especially since Gorm Climate stuck around for so long, and doubly so because this campaign has been so lethal to anyone with any amount of Hunt XP.

This campaign hit us with Murder in LY7, and we weren't able to get rid of it until LY15. We've seen 5 Saviors born and die, and, even with Protect the Young, we didn't manage to hit 15 population, to help get rid of Murder, until LY15. Experienced players know that the Settlement and Hunt phases are where the real danger is, and with SO MUCH stuff added, especially to the Settlement phase, it's proven extremely difficult to keep experienced Survivors alive.

I think that we will make it to the finish line, although with the lack of experience and power in our Survivors...
Spoiler (click to reveal)
...we've essentially written off the LY15 LvL3 Lion Knight, the LY16 Slenderman, and the LY19 LvL3 Slenderman and soon to be added LvL3 Lion Knight. That means we are going to need 16 people to throw to the wolves. We are sitting at 15 currently, so we'll need to have a minimum of 5 more babies to even take a full party into the Watcher at LY20.


Without Murder, things probably could have been more manageable, but that's true of every campaign where Murder shows up and sticks around. All told, it's fun, but it's just too much, even for experienced players who have multiple campaigns under our belts. I wouldn't even imagine bringing a new player into a campaign like this.

On the bright side, it's given us a really good feel for which expansions do and don't really work together, and we are already planning out our next campaign's mix.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
I'll never use Slenderman and Lion Knight together again, and I most likely wont ever use Gorm and Spidicules together again either.


Has anyone else used everything?

If so, how'd it go?


9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ArtSchool
Spain
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Since you have all the knowledge now, I would really appreciate it if you would suggest a couple of alternative campaign settings to enhance the core game experience (once I manage to finish a standard Watcher campaign), but just comprising a few expansions at a time (maybe two or three?). Which ones would you include on a new playthrough to spice it up without making it overwhelming? Thanks!





 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alessio Massuoli
Italy
Terni
Umbria
flag msg tools
They await the King
badge
The Snarky Sloth
mbmbmbmbmb
I added"everything" (except the dk and sunstalker, which I played separately in t their own campaign mode), on a PoLantern campaign already at year 8. I then entered a NG+ on LY13 (won't spoil), so I played everything straight from start (chose graves/protect the young/accept the darkness/romantic, so I went 75% easy on my settlement).

I found that a lot EASIER than base game, for the following reasons:

1. Gear choice at startup enables you to make near-perfect decisions. Gorm gives you more than decent starting weapons, that were dearly missed, and spidicules got you nice katars and very powerful, non heavy, armor pieces.
2. Up until the butcher, all events added buffed my population in some way (won't spoil the spidicules one, but having already met it once, you can gain the maximum from it.
3. You get a thousand of innovations more, that end up simplifying your game directly (ammonia is practically guaranteed free, and hovel is very likely also free. You usually get to 7 innovations before the butcher, and that is average, not best case.
4. You get a lot of tinkers and matchmakers out of the added settlement events
5. There is always something nice coming out of some special crafting event (slenderman, flower knight, dung beetle knight).
6. There is a single tactic (as in, knight tactics cards) that can win you games
7. Specific equipment makes the game easier at relatively early stages (vespertine bow, pulsating lantern, calcified zanbato, brawler set)
8. Hunt flower knight two times and take your time (poor guy), and the other two knights (especially lion knight) will be easy mode.
9. Secret Fighting Arts. You will miss King's step, you will gain a lot easier legendary lungs, as well as a silk surgeon, a necromancer, beetle strength and other, less notable.
- there are free affinities, big permanent bonuses, "free" xp/proficiency to gained in the form of lonely tree
Fruits, gorm options, slave trade, necromancy events and overall, special showdowns.
Of course, there were drawbacks, namely:
- you will complete three or four "normal" sets in 20 years, due to the quarries being more varied
- you will lose more nemeses. Namely, I keep losing to manhunter (100℅ agree that it's a lot more fun than frustrating), L2 slender man, while I keep winning against the lonely tree (once you know the trick and can begin with a gaxe early, it's easier than its HLs say).
- you lose a lot of population, and some combination of story/settlement events can wreck your year. I did fine as I did (28 pop in LY20), but I seriously doubt that I would have made it with less endeavors, SotF, or with less matchmakers.
- you don't see a lot of the most difficult content if you mix everything (in NG+, hunted only one lion God, did only one underground sow, hunted no legendaries)


All in all, is something you can do, and is probably more forgiving of you eating resources in the "wrong" gear/innovation tree, but it almost forces you to make some principle choices to keep going (I would also have taken collective toil at NG+ to get rid of some unpleasant consequences of accept the darkness, but I can't stand twice the servings of bone witch).

Anyway, I think there is a lot gain in having all, it at least it's something that can be done carelessly to a degree.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
TechRaptor Travis
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Styfen wrote:
NerdyRaptor wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
I most likely wont ever use Gorm and Spidicules together again either.

Why?



Due to the nature of the way Gorm Climate...

Spoiler (click to reveal)
...discourages you to ever hold on to any resources or risk losing them, while the Spidicules, silk in particular, encourages you hold resources.


I want to play with the Spidicules more, in a less hostile setting to get a better feel for it. It feels like it should be a more focused quarry, and hunt-able much more often than the Antelope, which has always felt a bit supplemental to me.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
TechRaptor Travis
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Shu1984 wrote:
Since you have all the knowledge now, I would really appreciate it if you would suggest a couple of alternative campaign settings to enhance the core game experience (once I manage to finish a standard Watcher campaign), but just comprising a few expansions at a time (maybe two or three?). Which ones would you include on a new playthrough to spice it up without making it overwhelming? Thanks!







As soon as I finish this campaign I'd be happy to!

As it stands now, I think I'll include Manhunter, Flower Knight and Dung Beetle Knight in just about every campaign I play; certainly in every People of the Lantern campaign.

We are planning our next campaign already, and we'll almost certainly draft up a few different combinations before choosing one, so I'd be happy to share what we think would be good mixtures.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
TechRaptor Travis
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
t3clis wrote:
I added"everything" (except the dk and sunstalker, which I played separately in t their own campaign mode), on a PoLantern campaign already at year 8. I then entered a NG+ on LY13 (won't spoil), so I played everything straight from start (chose graves/protect the young/accept the darkness/romantic, so I went 75% easy on my settlement).

I found that a lot EASIER than base game, for the following reasons....



I'd argue that your NG+, especially as late as LY13, was more of a factor in making the game easier than the inclusion of the expansions.

I do think that there are many factors that can make the game easier overall if you take advantage of them, but my point was more that the game feels too busy, almost bloated, when everything is added, rather than more or less difficult.

Our experience has been in direct opposition of quite a few of your numbered points, but that is the nature of the game whenever things like Murder pop up and stick around etc.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alessio Massuoli
Italy
Terni
Umbria
flag msg tools
They await the King
badge
The Snarky Sloth
mbmbmbmbmb
Yup, I can agree a lot with the busy part: there is indeed a lot more to do.

I can also see how murder can be a pain, if you keep getting it (let's say more than four times in a campaign)... But this is not expansion's fault, is my point.

I can't really do anything about having hit a NG+, it is unfortunately the one of the two you can't avoid (easily), but apart from that, I felt it a bit easier. Compare simply going against a l1 butcher with some bone darts, one rawhide set and a half, a skull helm and maybe a shield or a spear against going against it with a rawhide, a gaxe and a rib blade, maybe spider katars and a PULSATING LANTERN. If you don't get the AI deck for brain damage (I went in prepared to bleed once, and he kept brain damaging and hack citying, the bastard). To not count the gormchymist, aka "the bonus minigame"

Of course, the experience varies anyway. Kudos to your brave, in progress, attempt.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
TechRaptor Travis
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
t3clis wrote:
...

I can't really do anything about having hit a NG+, it is unfortunately the one of the two you can't avoid (easily)...


Do you actively avoid trying to trigger NG+?

I've gone both ways with it. In the two times that I've had a choice I have chosen to trigger it once, and chosen not to trigger it the other time. I've talked to quite a few people that actively seek to trigger it every chance they get.

If you actively avoid it you will be the first person that I've heard from who does so (although undoubtedly there are others.)



 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
TechRaptor Travis
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
So....LY16 hunt we TPK'ed vs a LvL2 Sunstalker. We found Fade on the hunt and brought the baby. This was our downfall.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
The baby takes a spot in a gear grid and makes all of that survivor's weapons slow. We had our Vespertine bow user take the baby, as she'd lost her head armor to a hunt event. She missed 6 attacks during the fight.


The dice gods turned against us. We had at least 12 full attacks miss completely during the fight.

Now we sit at LY17 with only 10 population, all with zero hunt xp. Normally that would be fine, but with what LY19 has in store for us, we are guaranteed to lose 8 of them, with no Matchmakers. We'd have to augury/love juice up 2 babies just to have a full party of relative noobs vs the Watcher.

This campaign is almost 100% a wrap. Another check-mark on the failed campaigns list. We are going to hunt a Dragon and a Lion God in the next two LY just to experience them and, barring the kind of miracle that just doesn't exist in KDM, we are going to call it quits on this campaign afterwards.

Add Slenderman and Lion Knight to the list of "not compatible with Spidicules" expansions. The lack of Antelope negates your ability to make some top tier Slendy gear, and the LK mish-mash armor sets.

Right now we are deciding between a pure PotStars campaign or a PotLantern campaign with:
Manhunter
Flower Knight
DBK
Sunstalker
Dragon King
Lion God

Expansions I don't think I'll ever use together again:
Lion Knight + Slenderman

Expansions I know I won't ever use together again (when playing RaW):
Spidicules + Slenderman
Spidicules + Lion Knight
Spiducles just cuts off access to so many things. I saw another thread were someone was experimenting with replacing Antelope resources with their counterparts from Spidicules, and maybe that will even things out. As it stands, Spidey is going to be sitting on the shelf gathering dust while the rest of the KDM stuff sees use.

Edit: Here's the thread about resource replacements: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1629979/more-integrated-spi...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brett Burleigh II
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
So, I gotta ask: Slenderman vs. Kingsman? Which would you rather deal with in a Lantern Peeps campaign?

My is the only nemesis I've managed to defeat (L2), but he's got lots of nasty downsides. It sounds like SM has a lot of other downsides, too. I didn't realize, but the Kingsman can...
Spoiler (click to reveal)
kill a settlement during Armored Strangers (having survivors with only 0 courage and rolling the courage result will let everyone tie, and slaughters the whole tribe)


I do agree that the Spidicules resource subs is a really good idea... It's also a bit striking that Team KD didn't add that into the rulebook.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Henry Akeley
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Gotta say I am happy I didn't buy Spidicules. I was against buying it simply due to the cost ($100 for Spidicules vs $100 for Sunstalker....no contest). Now that I actually know some of the broader game impacts that inclusion of Spidicules affects I am definitely ok with never getting it into my collection. Sure I like the creepy giant spider theme, the meat puppet lures, and that it shares the same biome with the Flower Knight. But all of those "likes" I just listed can be summed up in a (I hope someday) KD:M lore book/RPG book. Just no need.

As far as combining expansions go; a friend and I have been playing through with all 6 of my expansions integrated. Those 6 are:

Flower Knight (Bloom People so no hunting of FK)
Dung Beetle Knight
Sunstalker
Slenderman
Lion God
Gorm

I'll admit we have been focused on optimization so have almost exclusively hunted Gorms with the exception of 1 WL hunt up to LY 16 or 17. My friend is a little skittish of harder hunts and I am more balls to the wall and hope the luck brings us through (sub-optimal playstyle but KD:M is about the experience and not the results). Hopefully before its all through we will have hunted Lion God once and either DBK or Sunstalker. With Slendy we beat his L1 form then had a close match against his L2 which ended in a frustrating TPK. We had like 5 dark waters.

As for People of the Bloom; its fun but man you really miss those red affinities. Save the starting survivors as they are the only ones who can use the red affinities without a horrible deficit to make up!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve
United States
Flagstaff
Arizona
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
From the outside, this session is super helpful for thinking about purchasing decisions with limited $$$!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
TechRaptor Travis
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
brrrmanza wrote:
So, I gotta ask: Slenderman vs. Kingsman? Which would you rather deal with in a Lantern Peeps campaign?

My is the only nemesis I've managed to defeat (L2), but he's got lots of nasty downsides. It sounds like SM has a lot of other downsides, too. I didn't realize, but the Kingsman can...
Spoiler (click to reveal)
kill a settlement during Armored Strangers (having survivors with only 0 courage and rolling the courage result will let everyone tie, and slaughters the whole tribe)


I do agree that the Spidicules resource subs is a really good idea... It's also a bit striking that Team KD didn't add that into the rulebook.


If Slenderman only replaced the Kingsman I would probably choose Slenderman every time. The 'problem' with the Slenderman is...

Spoiler (click to reveal)
...that he replaces ALL of the Nemesis encounters for the rest of the campaign, so, while he's a fun, challenging fight with great risk/rewards, he limits your options. Nothing says you can't house rule it, but with RaW I'll probably alternate back and forth in PotL campaigns, using Slenderman every other PotL campaign.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
TechRaptor Travis
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I asked Adam about the Spidicules conflicts and this is what he said:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Barber Surgeon and Stone Circle are both kind of soft antelope locations. It's an overlooked monster but the design choice is deliberate.

With the spider, you get silk mill. Your not meant to lean on all the base game locations.

The big issue with the antelope, is the high chance lvl 2 and 3 run away + the chance of fighting a +1 level lion. I find these results to be flavorful and fun, but it limits the antelopes table time.


He also acknowledged that Cooking is intentionally weakened by excluding the Antelope. I asked about the direct conflicts with the Slenderman and Lion Knight, but I haven't heard back about those yet, although those conflicts could be resolved with some 1 to 1 replacements for gear (Armor Sets) and resources (Slenderman recipes) if you really wanted to use Spidey and Slendy/LK together. If I get official word back on those, I'll let everyone know.

I'm now curious to explore the Spidicules further in a more vanilla campaign. The fight is fun and interesting, and I'm curious to see how the Silk Mill functions in a more confined, far less hectic campaign, although I'll probably table that for the time being as I'm more excited to play either PotStars or another Lantern with multiple expansions.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
TechRaptor Travis
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, we pulled out a victory over the Watcher with 7 survivors left standing.

Our final two hunts were against the Dragon King. What a fun fight.

Our only post-Watcher fight was against a LvL1 Lion God. All I will say is lolyeahright and slaughter.

It was a fun fight, but I'm not really sure what the point of the Lion God is. I'm guessing it's either a litmus test for future, post LY25 content or just a brutal test for truly masochistic/expert players.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.