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Runebound (Third Edition)» Forums » Variants

Subject: Movement and action change rss

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My post below regarding movement on roads honestly blew my mind. You can ignore my silly attempt to fix something that wasn't broken in the first place.

Instead, if you're reading this, here's my advice:

Use the damn roads.

Thanks Phate999.

I played my first game last night. I wasn't expecting this to be as good as 2e (my personal favorite game of all time), but I WAS expecting it to be at least comparable.

In general, it was. However, I had two HUGE issues with my experience (not related to combat):

- Mobility is insanely important yet not well implemented.
- 3 actions per turn (with adventures costing 2 of those 3) means you end up having to focus on "be super efficient" instead of exploring the world and experiencing the scenario for what it is.

I intend to play one or two more games with rules as written (RAW), but I also intend to try this out:

====

1) Similar to 2e, movement will be done with all 5 movement dice, unless you are wounded. If you choose to take a move action and have wounds on your hero, you roll 4 movement dice instead. You may not exert to re-roll movement dice for movement purposes. Any bonuses to speed for movement purposes only are ignored. It is 5 or 4 always.

2) In the unfortunate case of rolling no possible moves, you may still choose to move 1 hex in any direction of your choosing.

3) Whenever you are instructed to roll movement dice for any other reason (quests, rewards, exploration, etc) you use your speed stat per RAW.

4) Adventuring costs 1 action instead of 2.

====

My reasoning:

Movement between adventure gems, cities, quests, and story events is absolutely crucial to success. Having such a low speed stat means you're likely only rolling 3 dice per turn for most or all of the game. With story events popping up all over the map and quests requiring similarly eccentric movement, 3 movement is simply not enough. What's worse is that it's not uncommon to roll 3 dice and not be able to move (this happened to me 3 times yesterday).

Also, when you adventure and draw a quest that resolves in the other corner of the map, you've effectively drawn a card that might as well read, "lol good luck clearing this quest and powering up and earning skills and shopping and killing the villain." Because honestly, that's what it feels like. I ended my game last night with 3 incomplete quests because they were all on the top side of the map. Act II was about over and I still had 15 gold to spend, only 3 lore tokens, and only 2 skills. While I understand the game can swing for any number of reasons, a huge issue I had was that I simply couldn't move across the map fast enough. Black Market may fix the shopping issue, but it seems insane to have one skill that one hero can have that effectively removes their need to visit cities.

On that same note, making the adventure cost 1 action means that, even if you draw a quest on the other side of the map, you can roll movement dice and still have a chance to trek across the land and complete the quest within 2 turns or so (instead of possibly wasting 4+ turns). FFG made a mistake by designing a Doom Track into the game AND limiting movement heavily from 2e. I'm hoping that removal of the movement limitation will allow you to explore the world more and experience the adventure as it appears was intended.

Keeping explore and quest actions at speed should maintain that aspect of balance. And being able to move 1 hex even if you roll poorly would still allow you to make SOME progress as it could happen that you roll 4/5 bad dice. The reason for removing the exert to re-roll movement dice for movement purposes is because you now can move 1 hex even if you roll poorly.

If anyone decides to try this out before I do, please report back your thoughts. I don't imagine these adjustments would break the game in any way. It's already setup such that you never really feel super powerful like you did in 2e.

 
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David desJardins
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It seems pretty easy, with experience, to beat the Villain before time runs out. So if you make four different changes all of which make advancement much faster, the game is going to be over super quick.

I can maybe remember once ever when I rolled the dice and couldn't move at all. Most of the map is plains, and there's only a 4% chance of rolling no plains. Also, you can exert. If you move into a space where you're surrounded by mountains, or something, that's part of the strategy that you should take that into account before going there, and/or decide to move 1 space out rather than rolling.
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Greg
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There are already cards built into the system to do what you are proposing. Boots that add +1 Dice. A skill that reduces Adventuring to 1 action.

And I agree with the above in that if you tweak the game rules even slightly, it might make defeating the scenario either way too easy or too hard.

I think the design needs literally nothing added or subtracted (except more expansion, bring them on!). It has some of the most consistent and polished rules and mechanisms I have seen for a game like this.
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Yes, the game is gonna be super easy that way.
If what you seek is a relaxed exploring experience then ok, just be aware that you'll lose all tension.

Anyway, have fun!
 
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David desJardins
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Kris wrote:
Yes, the game is gonna be super easy that way.
If what you seek is a relaxed exploring experience then ok, just be aware that you'll lose all tension.


No matter how easy or hard you make it, the tension is basically the same, because it comes from how fast the other players are advancing and whether you can win before they do.

But I still don't see the need to make advancement faster.

 
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I probably played close to 500 games of 2e (no joke), so I see the issues with 3e more in terms of what 2e was and what 3e isn't. I can't stand games that are so constructed that I risk failure because I don't follow the specific path the designers intended.

My example with quests and story events still echoes - am I supposed to write off a certain aspect of the game in favor of efficient play? It ruins the idea of being this ultimate hero in an adventure. I love the inclusion of these new mechanics, but I hate that I can't figure out how to incorporate them. That's the main reason I want to change the move mechanics...But we will see how I keep going.
 
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David desJardins
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nicoga3000 wrote:
I probably played close to 500 games of 2e (no joke), so I see the issues with 3e more in terms of what 2e was and what 3e isn't. I can't stand games that are so constructed that I risk failure because I don't follow the specific path the designers intended.


That seems weird because there's a huge risk of failure in 2e. The game rewards you for stepping up to the more difficult challenges as soon as possible, but the cost for being defeated (e.g., if you have an 80-90% chance and get unlucky) is extremely high. Runebound 3e is much more forgiving of different outcomes.

Quote:
My example with quests and story events still echoes - am I supposed to write off a certain aspect of the game in favor of efficient play?


You certainly shouldn't write off the quests. It seems a bit presumptuous to declare them useless after one (1) game. Obviously, the quests are more attractive early on, when you have a lot of time left to complete them, while combat becomes more attractive later on, when your power allows you to win more consistently.
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You're right in that 2e is VERY unforgiving in terms of combat defeat. 3e did it right in that respect - defeat sucks but doesn't do much outside of slow you down a little.

My issue with the game as a whole (besides little beef with combat because tokens roll around a lot) is that you don't move around the world enough. My move variant is largely a way of allowing you to run around more. Even if you were to keep adventures at 2 actions, 5/4 movement dice would allow you to explore the map more.

I'm going to at least try that part out. I'll leave he adventure cost alone for the moment, but after a few more RAW games, I'm going to tinker with movement dice because I miss that aspect of 2e.
 
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David desJardins
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I feel like I do move around a lot. Obviously, it's better to do lots of adventures in a local area, but between completing quests, shopping, delivering goods, and looking for sites of the right type and/or that are not exhausted, it seems like there's plenty of need to move. Because a single adventure costs 2+ actions (often you might need a 3rd action to rest before you can adventure again), the relative cost of one extra move in order to get to a better location isn't really all that high. You might be misperceiving the relative cost, after having played the game just once. (Reducing the cost of adventures would make moving *less* attractive, because it means that an extra move is a bigger reduction in the number of adventures you can do.)
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I have to take a slice of humble pie here.

Phate999 made a comment in my review thread about using roads to your advantage. My last game, I made a very explicit point to try and use roads to get around the map.

Long story short, it made a HUGE difference. Through skills and equipment, I went from Dawnsmoor to one space outside of Forge on one turn. It was quite fascinating.

My complaints were mostly because I never really considered the importance of roads in 3e since 2e was SUCH a different experience.

So thank you Phate999 - your comment was literally my Runebound 3e enlightening moment.
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that Matt
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Kudos for admitting your shortsightedness.
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