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War of the Ring (First Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Combat question: Help Unlooked For vs. We Come to Kill rss

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Dan Freedman
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Scenario:
FP plays Help Unlooked For via palantir and attacks a beseiging SP army from an adjacent territory. That card reads:
You may immediately attack a Shadow Army that is besieging a Free Peoples Stronghold with one of your Armies in an adjacent region.
For this entire battle, the Shadow Player rolls one Combat die less for each Free Peoples unit in the besieged Stronghold (to a minimum of one).


In the 1st round of combat, SP plays We Come to Kill:
After removing casualties, roll an additional attack using only the Shadow Elite Units. The attack scores hits with results of 5 or higher.

The FP army holed up in the Stronghold (not involved in combat) is 5 strong. If after removing casualties from both sides there are 5 SP elites left, how many dice are used on the additional attack w/Shadow elites? Would that be 5 or 1? Basically, does the Help Unlooked For card supercede the We Come to Kill? I tend to think SP only rolls 1 but wasn't sure.

Thanks!
 
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Kristofer Bengtsson
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I believe that the attacks coming from "We Come to Kill" are not normal attack rolls and therefor not affected by "Help Unlooked For".

 
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Dan Freedman
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Veldrin wrote:
I believe that the attacks coming from "We Come to Kill" are not normal attack rolls and therefor not affected by "Help Unlooked For".


The attacks coming from We Come to Kill are part of the overall "battle". And Help Unlooked For specifies for the "entire battle". So it is a tough one to figure out.
 
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Ken B.
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I think the key here is that We Come to Kill is granting an extra attack, only it limits who may participate.

Many cards will have you toss dice and then inflict casualties based on what you roll, but they are not specifically "attacks".

We Come to Kill is giving you a one-off attack, with which only the Shadow Elites may participate and no one else. Therefore, this is a combat roll and affected by Help Unlooked For.


That is far from official but in the absence of an official ruling that's how I'd call it, and for those reasons.
 
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Collin
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Even though he didn't sound too sure in this case, I would probably go with whatever Veldrin says. Short of the designers themselves he is probably the most knowledgeable War of the Ring resource on this site, and he has a good feel for how the designers intended things to work.
 
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Kristofer Bengtsson
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Thank you for your kind words Collin.

My interpretation could be wrong but let me explain why I answered as I did:

The Combat roll is the "normal" roll made based on the Combat Strength of the army. Attacks before or after the "normal" combat roll are never considered combat rolls.


I'll email the designers and get an official answer.
 
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Ken B.
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I understand what you mean. Probably due to translation issues "combat" and "attack" are used somewhat interchangeably. A ruling across the board would settle most of these type questions, I'd wager.
 
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Kristofer Bengtsson
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Roberto Di Meglio (the designer) just emailed me the official answer and I was indeed correct.

The extra attacks coming from "We Come to Kill" is unaffected by the "Help Unlooked For" card. The Shadow would roll 5 dice.
 
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Dan Freedman
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Veldrin wrote:
Roberto Di Meglio (the designer) just emailed me the official answer and I was indeed correct.

The extra attacks coming from "We Come to Kill" is unaffected by the "Help Unlooked For" card. The Shadow would roll 5 dice.


Thanks for the ruling!
 
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Chris Guenther
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Easy question. 5 dice. If the SP had 10 elites, he would roll 10 die. Yeah, sucks to be the FP, but thats one of the most powerful Combat cards in the game. By the way, the SP should have used that card on the SH as the defense of the SH does not count with that card. Thus the SP could roll up to 10 EXTRA die hitting on a 5 or 6 on armies IN THE STRONGHOLD.

Genghis Sean


Double Dan wrote:
Scenario:
FP plays Help Unlooked For via palantir and attacks a beseiging SP army from an adjacent territory. That card reads:
You may immediately attack a Shadow Army that is besieging a Free Peoples Stronghold with one of your Armies in an adjacent region.
For this entire battle, the Shadow Player rolls one Combat die less for each Free Peoples unit in the besieged Stronghold (to a minimum of one).


In the 1st round of combat, SP plays We Come to Kill:
After removing casualties, roll an additional attack using only the Shadow Elite Units. The attack scores hits with results of 5 or higher.

The FP army holed up in the Stronghold (not involved in combat) is 5 strong. If after removing casualties from both sides there are 5 SP elites left, how many dice are used on the additional attack w/Shadow elites? Would that be 5 or 1? Basically, does the Help Unlooked For card supercede the We Come to Kill? I tend to think SP only rolls 1 but wasn't sure.

Thanks!
 
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Kevin Chapman
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Genghis Sean wrote:
Easy question. 5 dice. If the SP had 10 elites, he would roll 10 die. Yeah, sucks to be the FP, but thats one of the most powerful Combat cards in the game. By the way, the SP should have used that card on the SH as the defense of the SH does not count with that card. Thus the SP could roll up to 10 EXTRA die hitting on a 5 or 6 on armies IN THE STRONGHOLD.

Genghis Sean

I don't believe you can ever roll more than 5 dice with any attack.
 
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Dan Freedman
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Krieghund wrote:
Genghis Sean wrote:
Easy question. 5 dice. If the SP had 10 elites, he would roll 10 die. Yeah, sucks to be the FP, but thats one of the most powerful Combat cards in the game. By the way, the SP should have used that card on the SH as the defense of the SH does not count with that card. Thus the SP could roll up to 10 EXTRA die hitting on a 5 or 6 on armies IN THE STRONGHOLD.

Genghis Sean

I don't believe you can ever roll more than 5 dice with any attack.


Correct Krieghund. If the SP still had 10 elites after removing casualties, and the FP had 4 or 5 units in the stronghold, the SP would roll 5 dice (the max) for We Come to Kill...not 1 (as I initially thought), nor 10 (as Genghis Sean suggested).
 
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