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Subject: "Fences: A Brexit Diary" rss

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Drew
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I don't agree with all of this, but there's a message here, too, for the NewBoshWash Ruling Class -- if they care to listen.

Quote:
In the days following the result I thought about this insight a lot. I kept reading pieces by proud Londoners speaking proudly of their multicultural, outward-looking city, so different from these narrow xenophobic places up north. It sounded right, and I wanted it to be true, but the evidence of my own eyes offered a counternarrative. For the people who truly live a multicultural life in this city are those whose children are educated in mixed environments, or who live in genuinely mixed environments, in public housing or in a handful of historically mixed neighborhoods, and there are no longer as many of those as we like to believe.

For many people in London right now the supposedly multicultural and cross-class aspects of their lives are actually represented by their staff — nannies, cleaners — by the people who pour their coffees and drive their cabs, or else the handful of ubiquitous Nigerian princes you meet in the private schools. The painful truth is that fences are being raised everywhere in London.
Around school districts, around neighborhoods, around lives. One useful consequence of Brexit is to finally and openly reveal a deep fracture in British society that has been thirty years in the making. The gaps between north and south, between the social classes, between Londoners and everyone else, between rich Londoners and poor Londoners, and between white and brown and black are real and need to be confronted by all of us, not only those who voted Leave.


. . .

Quote:
Extreme inequality fractures communities, and after a while the cracks gape so wide the whole edifice comes tumbling down. In this process everybody has been losing for some time, but perhaps no one quite as much as the white working classes who really have nothing, not even the perceived moral elevation that comes with acknowledged trauma or recognized victimhood. The left is thoroughly ashamed of them. The right sees them only as a useful tool for its own personal ambitions. This inconvenient working-class revolution we are now witnessing has been accused of stupidity — I cursed it myself the day it happened—but the longer you look at it, you realize that in another sense it has the touch of genius, for it intuited the weaknesses of its enemies and effectively exploited them. The middle-class left so delights in being right! And so much of the disenfranchised working class has chosen to be flagrantly, shamelessly wrong.

We have a history of ridiculing the poor, in Britain, for “shafting themselves,” for “voting against their interests.” But no less has the neoliberal middle and upper-middle class shafted itself, living in its gilded London prisons. If you think that’s an exaggeration, go up to Notting Hill and watch the private security vehicles, paid for by private residents, slowly patrolling up and down the streets, in front of all those £20 million residences, nervous perhaps of the council house residents still clinging on, the other side of the Portobello Road. Or go up to the Savoy and have a gander at the vintage cocktail list on which the cheapest drink on offer goes for £100 (the most pricey is something called the Sazerac — which claims to be the most expensive cocktail in the world—coming in at £5,000). Strange times.

Of course that cocktail list is only another stupid symbol, but it is of its time and place. There has been a kind of money madness in London for some time and for the rest of us looking on it’s hard to find in such symbols any sign of a beautiful, harmonious, or even happy life (what kind of happy person needs to be seen ordering a £5,000 cocktail?), though at least when you are this rich you can comfortably fool yourself that you are happy, utilizing what the old North London Marxists used to call your “false consciousness.” That crusty standby won’t work anymore for describing the economically and socially disenfranchised of this nation: they are struggling, deeply unhappy, and they know it.


. . .

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While we loudly and rightly condemn the misguided racial attitudes that led to millions asking “them” to leave “us,” to get out of our jobs and public housing and hospitals and schools and country, we might also take a look at the last thirty years and ask ourselves what kind of attitudes have allowed a different class of people to discreetly maneuver, behind the scenes, to ensure that “them” and “us” never actually meet anywhere but in symbol. Wealthy London, whether red or blue, has always been able to pick and choose the nature of its multicultural and cross-class relations, to lecture the rest of the country on its narrow-mindedness while simultaneously fencing off its own discreet advantages. We may walk past “them” very often in the street and get into their cabs and eat their food in their ethnic restaurants, but the truth is that more often than not they are not in our schools, or in our social circles, and they very rarely enter our houses — unless they’ve come to work on our endlessly remodeled kitchens.



Change the references from London to New York or Washington, and it pretty much fits our situation in the US.
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G Rowls
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partialy until she started going on about Corbyn - she is exactly the sort of 'London' set the rest of the party memebers want gone from the Labour party . She is a red tory.

Why vote tory lite when you can have the the real thing? The papers over here are full of the middle class whinging they cant aford to send their kids to 'public' (private schools) any more because the fees work out around 130k in total. Or they can't manage on salaries of 60k (average is considered around 30k less outside the South East).

 
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Drew
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^ Over here the elites can send their kids to the most exclusive schools, but they hate the idea of school choice for the lower classes. Only the elites should have choices.
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Boaty McBoatface
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growlley wrote:
partialy until she started going on about Corbyn - she is exactly the sort of 'London' set the rest of the party memebers want gone from the Labour party . She is a red tory.

Why vote tory lite when you can have the the real thing? The papers over here are full of the middle class whinging they cant aford to send their kids to 'public' (private schools) any more because the fees work out around 130k in total. Or they can't manage on salaries of 60k (average is considered around 30k less outside the South East).

Sadly I agree with much of what she says. The problem is that the middle class intellectual elite did ignore the poor, and Brexit reflects a rejection of their world view.

Yes I think this also doers reflect what I have read about America, and the failure of the capitalist system. It needs to be aspirational, people need to think they have a chance to succeed and not just be told how hard it is for people living on Knightbridge.
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David Dearlove
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growlley wrote:
partialy until she started going on about Corbyn - she is exactly the sort of 'London' set the rest of the party memebers want gone from the Labour party . She is a red tory.

Why vote tory lite when you can have the the real thing? The papers over here are full of the middle class whinging they cant aford to send their kids to 'public' (private schools) any more because the fees work out around 130k in total. Or they can't manage on salaries of 60k (average is considered around 30k less outside the South East).


As soon as someone says Red Tory, I know exactly what their politics are.
Corbyn's followers ideological purity will lead to at least 10 more years in the wilderness of Tory government. Corbyn is ineffectual and unelectable.
Calling people who acknowledge that and realise that the aim of politics is to govern and to govern you have to be elected "Red Tories" is just immature. Good luck with a lovely left wing program and the opposition benches.
 
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actually you have no idea what my politics are . The problem is those 'red' tories arent centralists or moderates at all they are close in idea to what the americans term neoliberal conservatives and we already have a party that does that better because they believe in it and not just for thate sake of their own politicial skins.

There is no 'centre' in British politics everything is moving to the extreme right. This is bad for democracy and leads to the large scale disenfrancisement mentioned in the article.

What does it matter to me if if I have a choice between a genuine ultra conservative right wing government and one that claims to be only slightly less right but will carry out the same policies just to win power.

Either way I will get that 10 years - so may as well use it to build a genuine alternative with a genuinely different voice. The choice then comes down to the voters if after 10 years of authoritarian austerity they have had enough then that alternative voice will be heard and win , if the not then the voters will get the goverment they deserved after all they chose it.

"that the aim of politics is to govern and to govern" ah power for powers sake. Well I may be immature as I still belive in good governance for the benefit of the people. When the governement refuses to address the needs of significant percentage of its cizitens one of two things happen the population knuckles down and take it or violent change comes.
 
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David Dearlove
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growlley wrote:
actually you have no idea what my politics are . The problem is those 'red' tories arent centralists or moderates at all they are close in idea to what the americans term neoliberal conservatives and we already have a party that does that better because they believe in it and not just for thate sake of their own politicial skins.

There is no 'centre' in British politics everything is moving to the extreme right. This is bad for democracy and leads to the large scale disenfrancisement mentioned in the article.

What does it matter to me if if I have a choice between a genuine ultra conservative right wing government and one that claims to be only slightly less right but will carry out the same policies just to win power.

Either way I will get that 10 years - so may as well use it to build a genuine alternative with a genuinely different voice. The choice then comes down to the voters if after 10 years of authoritarian austerity they have had enough then that alternative voice will be heard and win , if the not then the voters will get the goverment they deserved after all they chose it.

"that the aim of politics is to govern and to govern" ah power for powers sake. Well I may be immature as I still belive in good governance for the benefit of the people. When the governement refuses to address the needs of significant percentage of its cizitens one of two things happen the population knuckles down and take it or violent change comes.

There are plenty of centrists who oppose the Tories. Labelling people who disagree with your position, which is completely clear, as Red Tories, is just immature. I did not say power for it's own sake. I said that you cannot achieve anything sitting on benches muttering about how you would do better if only the British people could be convinced of the obvious rightness of your position. There is absolutely no appetite for left wing politics of the sort you clearly approve of amongst the British public outside Scotland and the SNP has all of those.
Your strategy of allowing the Conservative party untrammelled power for a couple of elections and then hoping that the people will then vote for you out of despair is pathetic.
Corbyn just does not oppose. The Tories have a divided party and a small majority and he did fuck all for 6 months. His PMQs were pathetic.
Is it any wonder that the PLP wants a leader that can win elections?
 
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So wtf am I supposed to do about it sell out my own personal beliefs and intergrity just to allow some one to govern who will espouse anything as long as it gives them power and still do nothing for me?

If the majority of the voters don't want to vote for a left wing party that is their right and choice doesn't mean people who lean to the left shouldn't be allowed a voice or the party they want. That is the task not to convince the voters the policies are 'righteous' or ideologically pure but that whats on offer will benefit them, seems to me you can have any sweet you like as long as it is a blue sweet isn't help full when you either don't like blue sweets or there is already a better blue sweet on offer.

There isn't likely to be an election for four years, even with a small majority no way will the current conservative party vote itself out of office.

All the plp had to do was bide its time but they decided they knew better than the majority of the members who did vote for Corybn as leader and try a coup d'etat and worse bollox it up completely.

And who does that plp think will be the boots on the ground doing the ground work to get them elected it won't be me and it certainly wont be you?

The party doesn't belong to the plp but the members and the plp should answer to the members, if they dont want to be a labour party MP then they should either resign their membership and go independent or cross the floor. I'm not calling for them to resign because the voters elected them to be their mp and they can affirm or revoke that choice at the next election.
 
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Mutton Chops
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growlley wrote:
So wtf am I supposed to do about it sell out my own personal beliefs and intergrity just to allow some one to govern who will espouse anything as long as it gives them power and still do nothing for me?

If the majority of the voters don't want to vote for a left wing party that is their right and choice doesn't mean people who lean to the left shouldn't be allowed a voice or the party they want. That is the task not to convince the voters the policies are 'righteous' or ideologically pure but that whats on offer will benefit them, seems to me you can have any sweet you like as long as it is a blue sweet isn't help full when you either don't like blue sweets or there is already a better blue sweet on offer.

There isn't likely to be an election for four years, even with a small majority no way will the current conservative party vote itself out of office.

All the plp had to do was bide its time but they decided they knew better than the majority of the members who did vote for Corybn as leader and try a coup d'etat and worse bollox it up completely.

And who does that plp think will be the boots on the ground doing the ground work to get them elected it won't be me and it certainly wont be you?

The party doesn't belong to the plp but the members and the plp should answer to the members, if they dont want to be a labour party MP then they should either resign their membership and go independent or cross the floor. I'm not calling for them to resign because the voters elected them to be their mp and they can affirm or revoke that choice at the next election.


As I would see it, the most dangerous possible outcome of a Corbyn victory in the upcoming election, for Labour as a movement per se, is that the Blairite/centrist MPs could split off from the Labour party to form a separate centrist party (it happened before, in 1981, after all). That may result in a number of problematic consequences: first, it would simply split the left-wing vote, eroding majorities, particularly in key marginals; secondly, it would open the Labour party to portrayal by its enemies as a purist hard-left organisation, a very worrying image to have in the minds of the key voting demographics; thirdly, it might present the more centrist trades unions with an opportunity to shift their funding/allegiances.
 
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David Dearlove
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growlley wrote:
So wtf am I supposed to do about it sell out my own personal beliefs and intergrity just to allow some one to govern who will espouse anything as long as it gives them power and still do nothing for me?

If the majority of the voters don't want to vote for a left wing party that is their right and choice doesn't mean people who lean to the left shouldn't be allowed a voice or the party they want. That is the task not to convince the voters the policies are 'righteous' or ideologically pure but that whats on offer will benefit them, seems to me you can have any sweet you like as long as it is a blue sweet isn't help full when you either don't like blue sweets or there is already a better blue sweet on offer.

There isn't likely to be an election for four years, even with a small majority no way will the current conservative party vote itself out of office.

All the plp had to do was bide its time but they decided they knew better than the majority of the members who did vote for Corybn as leader and try a coup d'etat and worse bollox it up completely.

And who does that plp think will be the boots on the ground doing the ground work to get them elected it won't be me and it certainly wont be you?

The party doesn't belong to the plp but the members and the plp should answer to the members, if they dont want to be a labour party MP then they should either resign their membership and go independent or cross the floor. I'm not calling for them to resign because the voters elected them to be their mp and they can affirm or revoke that choice at the next election.

You see we have different perspectives your coup d'etat could be the desperation of people who are committed to actually achieving something in their political careers rather than watching the Tories do what they like. Remember the PLP members are actually elected, which gives them rather a lot of legitimacy.
It is not clear that the Labour party belongs to the members, especially if a lot of them have joined recently and have different views to the other members. The actual legal status is ambiguous to say the least.
The job of MPs is not to do something for YOU personally, but what they consider to be the good of the country. I hope you realise that most MPs sincerely believe that this is the only course to save the Labour party from perpetual opposition.
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Rubbish it belongs to the fee paying members of which the mps are one . if they dont like that then dont be a party member, the parties not there to just futher some ones political career but meet its stated objectives. if you dont like those objectives by all means convince enough members to change them or leave.

As to your point of new mebers holding different beliefs thats why they have things called votes and if a vote goes in a direction you really cant stomach you leave join another party or form your own..

Why should a small handfull of members get to dictate to the majority who did vote for Corybn just because they are mps? yes it's an odd relationship between mps and a party the voters are their boss but the party assets belong to the members not the voters.

How long your a member has nothing to do with it your either paid up legal member with the same rights granted by the parties constitution or or if your not a member your say comes at the election.
 
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