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Subject: Movement Question rss

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Dustin Shunta
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Does a rival ship in a space lane block movement between two systems (for sake of completeness assume the destination system is empty)?

Here are the sections of rules that I think are relevant:

"As you're moving through space at impulse or warp, you may not enter or pass through a Sector you don't Control that contains Hostile rival ships."

A sector is defined as "Any spot on the board in which a ship can be placed. A system disc counts as a single Sector, Space Lanes are divided into 2, 3, or 4 separate Sectors."

The Exiting Warp sections states "When a Ship Exits Warp, it may move through a number of Systems ..."

Originally, when I read the exiting warp section I assumed that it meant ships in space lanes are irrelevant to warp movement because the ships move through Systems not Sectors. That is, I didn't think that the ships moved through the sectors in the Space Lanes and therefore were not blocked by ships in them. As further evidence, the picture in the book shows the arrows for a ship moving going directly from system to system instead of going through the Space Lane Sectors.

I saw someone else in a different thread nonchalantly mention ships in space lanes block ships, which I hadn't considered until I reread the passages above.

Looking at it now, it seems possible, perhaps even likely, that ships in a space lane DO block movement at warp between two systems.

Would love to hear how others play this.
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Nova Cat
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Yes, ships in space lanes do block enemy movement. Even at warp, you still must pass through each sector between your origin and destination.
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John Godwin
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Yup, rival ships in a lane still block warp movement. Even If you try and warp into an enemy system, you stop in the space lane in front of the system unless they allow you to enter.
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Alex Almond
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Yes the ships in space lanes do stop warping ships.

Whilst you count the movement by counting the systems you are still traveling though the sectors of the space lanes.

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Dustin Shunta
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Man, apparently I'm the only one who interpreted this incorrectly. Well that's a big rule to get wrong.
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Don't worry, I also thought initially that Warp travel would not be hindered by ships in space lanes (but only by enemy systems).

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Chris Schenck
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This is the biggest thematic problem I have with the game -- the fact that a ship in warp has to stop when encountering a realspace ship along the path.

Star Wars (not Trek) has the concept of interdiction fields, where a ship can be involuntarily drawn out of hyperspace through the projection of a simulated mass shadow. But as far as I know, Trek doesn't have interdiction fields. The closest thing I'm aware of is an episode of DS9 where an "inverse graviton beam" was used to prevent ships from entering warp, but still not used to draw them out of warp.

I understand why Ascendancy needs to be this way. From a game dynamics standpoint, you have to be able to maintain a 'front' to make the area control graph meaningful. But it still does bother me a little bit, thematically.
 
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Angelus Seniores
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cbs42 wrote:
This is the biggest thematic problem I have with the game -- the fact that a ship in warp has to stop when encountering a realspace ship along the path.

Star Wars (not Trek) has the concept of interdiction fields, where a ship can be involuntarily drawn out of hyperspace through the projection of a simulated mass shadow. But as far as I know, Trek doesn't have interdiction fields. The closest thing I'm aware of is an episode of DS9 where an "inverse graviton beam" was used to prevent ships from entering warp, but still not used to draw them out of warp.

I understand why Ascendancy needs to be this way. From a game dynamics standpoint, you have to be able to maintain a 'front' to make the area control graph meaningful. But it still does bother me a little bit, thematically.


at warp the ships arent invisible. so if a rival ships spots your ship trying to enter the sector they will chase you and attack/force you to stop.

I'm not sure but i do think in star trek, they prefer to fight at impulse speed, maybe the shields/weapons arent getting enough energy while at warp and you cant make evasive maneuvers only fly straight which makes you pretty vulnerable. or the ship may be under too much structural stress at warp.

The designers may also simply go with the general character of star trek, where ships that meet tend to stop and talk to each other before taking actions.
 
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Nova Cat
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cbs42 wrote:
This is the biggest thematic problem I have with the game -- the fact that a ship in warp has to stop when encountering a realspace ship along the path.

In this case, it's actually a matter of being scientifically inaccurate, but thematically true to the source material.

Space is big. REALLY big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. (ahem...) So naturally the idea of a ship being obstructed by another ship while traveling faster than the speed of light seems ridiculous, and it is. Realistically, they wouldn't even see each other until the moving ship had already passed and was a million miles away.

BUT! In Star Trek, there are many examples of blockades being established at critical routes, and these blockades are effective at stopping unwanted travel. In the two-part episode Redemption, a romulan fleet is stopped by a Federation fleet. In The Best of Both Worlds, the Borg Cube drops out of warp to destroy the Federation's defense force at Wolf 359.

It happens in the show, despite being wholesale unrealistic when you think about it. It is thematic.
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Nova Cat
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Angelsenior wrote:
I'm not sure but i do think in star trek, they prefer to fight at impulse speed, maybe the shields/weapons arent getting enough energy while at warp and you cant make evasive maneuvers only fly straight which makes you pretty vulnerable. or the ship may be under too much structural stress at warp.

Combat at warp speed does happen, albeit rarely. Torpedoes work at warp, but phasers do not, and as you said, ship maneuverability is extremely limited at warp speed.
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Chris Schenck
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Novacat wrote:
Space is big. REALLY big.

Yep, and that's the exact same reasoning the rulebook gives on page 12 for why you can warp around hazardous phenomena (millions of miles wide) without needing to stop. Yet one tiny scout ship can't be avoided.

Sigh.

I'm ok with it. I really am! Without the rule, the area control aspect of the graph would be totally broken. So fine. But I can't pretend it's not an inconsistency. So this is really just me venting. I do love the game, despite the inconsistency.
 
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Alex Almond
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cbs42 wrote:
Novacat wrote:
Space is big. REALLY big.

Yep, and that's the exact same reasoning the rulebook gives on page 12 for why you can warp around hazardous phenomena (millions of miles wide) without needing to stop. Yet one tiny scout ship can't be avoided.

Sigh.

I'm ok with it. I really am! Without the rule, the area control aspect of the graph would be totally broken. So fine. But I can't pretend it's not an inconsistency. So this is really just me venting. I do love the game, despite the inconsistency.


Who says it's a scout ship? It's a battle ship. Plus there's a difference between going around and being intercepted by. You not ramming into the blocking ship (well maybe with cult of Kahless) they are intercepting one another.

How many times in DS9 were ships intercepted by patrol ships?
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Tom Vander Velden
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I agree thematically it doesn't feel right. I understand for game balance reasons. It just feels a bit off.
 
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Nova Cat
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verridian wrote:
I agree thematically it doesn't feel right.

See, I don't understand this idea. It happens in the shows all the time. How does it not feel right?

You want to argue real-world logistics of blockading a FTL object in space? I'm all with you on it being totally impractical. But in Star Trek, it happens regularly.
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Grish
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Novacat wrote:
verridian wrote:
I agree thematically it doesn't feel right.

See, I don't understand this idea. It happens in the shows all the time. How does it not feel right?

You want to argue real-world logistics of blockading a FTL object in space? I'm all with you on it being totally impractical. But in Star Trek, it happens regularly.


I agree with Novacat on this one. At first I too was like, "blocking fleets make no sense!" but with the examples above I was reminded how many times fleets intercepted other fleets in Star Trek, wolf 359 being the biggest one.
 
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Dustin Shunta
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I played again last night, and the game, mechanically speaking, was much improved by playing this rule correctly.
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Tom Vander Velden
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Ya when I think about it as blocking a particular planet I think it makes more sense to me. I will have to concede on this one. After thinking about it some more it makes sense. I guess in the moment of the game while playing somehow it didn't feel right. Next time we play I'll have a new outlook.
 
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Chris Schenck
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Novacat wrote:
You want to argue real-world logistics of blockading a FTL object in space? I'm all with you on it being totally impractical. But in Star Trek, it happens regularly.

I ...

I can't argue with that statement.
Damn.
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verridian wrote:
Ya when I think about it as blocking a particular planet I think it makes more sense to me. I will have to concede on this one. After thinking about it some more it makes sense. I guess in the moment of the game while playing somehow it didn't feel right. Next time we play I'll have a new outlook.


Don't think of the ships as stationary blockers. Think of them as doing stuff in the system they occupy, like patrolling, diplomacy, humanitarian aid, helping to establish research stations, investigating reports of blah blah, you get the idea. Then those ships will move to intercept if another ship or fleet approaches.

Imagine a system called "The Neutral Zone" and it had 3 Federation ships in it. Now imagine a Romulan fleet of 4 ships at warp, they would have to drop out of warp because they can't enter the Neutral Zone system with the Federation ships there.

In my head, it would play out that the Feds detected the Romulans on approach and then moved to intercept,

"Captain, 4 Romulan ships are on approach and traveling at warp 8. They will reach us in 3.5 hours."

"Yellow alert, move to intercept."

Pretty thematic if I sell myself on it that way.
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Dana R.
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May not be the place to ask this but if no enemy ship is in an opponents sector that he controls can you warp through/past it with or without a peace treaty in place? And if so do you still need permission if a treaty is in place?
 
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Craig S.
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Slabcity wrote:
May not be the place to ask this but if no enemy ship is in an opponents sector that he controls can you warp through/past it with or without a peace treaty in place? And if so do you still need permission if a treaty is in place?


Control nodes do not block movement. Only ships do that.
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Tim Earl
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This saved me tonight.

I just needed to hold on to at least one culture node for one more turn, with Feds and Klingons approaching from each side. So I filled the space lanes with ships to make it impossible to get through in one turn.
 
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Robert Annesen
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So if there are no ships blocking 2 controlled planets and the home planet. one could just move straight in and attack the rivals home planet?
 
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Craig S.
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RobertAnnesen wrote:
So if there are no ships blocking 2 controlled planets and the home planet. one could just move straight in and attack the rivals home planet?


If are no ships to block movement, then yes.
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Robert Annesen
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But if one does it when one has a trade agreement and not being allowed passage. Then that would be breaking the trade agreement right?
 
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