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Cyclades» Forums » Variants

Subject: Alternative Victory conditions - last until your turn in next round rss

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Salman Qaisar
United Kingdom
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I loooooooove Cyclades, good balance of euro + AT, in fact hybrids are our favourite games now. strategy AND excitement!
Not too long, tons of strategy, multiple paths to victory, direct + indirect conflict, low but not completely no luck.
Expansions that change the flow of the game in different ways.
Ticks all the boxes we love!!


One thing we do NOT like (although so far we accept it + just plan for it) is the sudden victory in the middle of a cycle:

Its probably the most anticlimatic and annoying part of the base game
- as soon as someone has played ares (+/- zeus to letter extent) and has 2 metropolises, not much point carrying on, and everyone else loses their last turn AND cannot do anything about it.
Just not fun (except for the winner).
And it feels like a cheap win, biding ur time to just make 1 opportunistic strike, even if that meant u'd lose all many gold/troops/territories (which you would never do, if you had to play a bit longer).

This is slightly reduced with the expansions, since someone with Cronos (in Titans) or Hades can still possibly do something about it, but not if they've come before ares (although then it maybe some fault on players for not being aware of the board state).


I think some DOAM games i've played now address this issue by requiring a player that reaches victory goals, to then survive a period of time with them intact:
- Kemet addressed this in the expansion by changing victory rules;
- Runewars Revised edition did this, which really improved the game
- Discworld
- Even the upcoming matogot game Inis explicitly gives anyone who has achieved the victory condition a "Pretender token" laugh + he must still fulfil those conditions in the following round

We've really liked this approach - this way there is more player agency, the Victor deserves it more, the drama is sustained to the climax.

I wonder if it will work for cyclades:
Eg once a player has 2 metropolises (pi?), then he wins if he still has 2 at START of his next turn (in the following cycle)
- even if this could mean he/she simply tries to win the first Entity on the turn track in next cycle, but other players at least have a chance to do something, by outbidding him etc etc.

- Downside is prolonging the game, but I don't think it will be that long, since (as a fellow BGGer once best described) cyclades is like a dam bursting, the players are generally all advancing (cipping away at it), cracks showing through (the leaders), engineers (other players) patching the dam to prevent the flood (victory), but eventually too many cracks appear and one person will cause the flood and win.
- So by this stage more than 1 player will probably have a chance to win soon after anyway.
- IF it does become a problem, u could rule that maximum only 2-3 more cycles can occur, and then victory according to victory conditions (1 metropolis, ties based on gold etc)


I would appreciate constructive thoughts?
Any glaring problems that would occur? (and solutions if possible pls)

Sal

btw. A Request: Anyone who loves cyclades as it is, and feels it does not need any changing, please note that i posted this under variants for a reason!
If u dont mind the normal victory rules, or even like them, as they do have a certain degree of merit (ie biding ur time for the right opening; and everyone knows the rules so they should have known u were likely to do this} - then that's great, then u've got the normal game + need not make any changes! Yeeeeahh for u!
I am writing more to get help for my group + anyone else who agrees with me.
Please do not reply with unhelpful comments. Of course if u want to discuss merits +/- suggest helpfully, please do
 
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Luke
Italy
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Ciao, maybe you've played the game wrong? The rulebook states:

The game ends at the end of a cycle where at least one player owns 2 Metropolises. That player wins the game!

So everyone gets to play their turn before the game ends.
 
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Salman Qaisar
United Kingdom
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Soul_Guile wrote:
Ciao, maybe you've played the game wrong? The rulebook states:

The game ends at the end of a cycle where at least one player owns 2 Metropolises. That player wins the game!

So everyone gets to play their turn before the game ends.


Yes they can, but often there is no point because if Zeus + Ares come at the top on the last round, and get the 2 metropolises (usually by conquest or pegasus), then there is nothing the others (Athena, poseidon, or Apollo) can do to stop the win.
So although they can have their turns, these are practically meaningless turns, so there is usually no point carrying on.

And as i said, for us, it also seems like a cheap victory.
It would be more significant if u achieved the 2 metropolises, and then held them for at least enough time for the other players to do something meaningful to try to stop you (even just at least the auction).

Am i making more sense now?

Regards, Sal
 
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