$30.00
$15.00
$20.00
$5.00
Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
19 Posts

Cthulhu Wars» Forums » Rules

Subject: The Watcher and Kills/Pains rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Graham Robinson
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
In memory of Tara, my beloved Wolfhound-Deerhound cross. Flew away Feb 2016, still missed.
mbmbmbmbmb
Two related questions on the Watcher that came up:

If Cthulhu rolls a Kill on the Watcher, but not enough to drop the Watcher to zero, does that roll still count for Cthulhu's Spellbook requirements?

Similarly, if Nyrlathotep rolls Kills or Pains against the Watcher, does he earn Elder Signs through Harbinger?

The second one does seem to give Chaos a pretty "easy target" for generating Elder Signs.

Cheers,
Graham
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tiago Gouveia
Brazil
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
therealbuserian wrote:
Two related questions on the Watcher that came up:

If Cthulhu rolls a Kill on the Watcher, but not enough to drop the Watcher to zero, does that roll still count for Cthulhu's Spellbook requirements?

Similarly, if Nyrlathotep rolls Kills or Pains against the Watcher, does he earn Elder Signs through Harbinger?

The second one does seem to give Chaos a pretty "easy target" for generating Elder Signs.

Cheers,
Graham


My opinion, not official.

To both your questions I wouls say yes... he was killed... a little bit... And although yhe Watcher is imune to pains he got the result anyway...

Also kills grants Tchotchos a spellbook.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David E
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
Boardgame Aesthete
mbmbmbmbmb
Hasn't the Watcher (and the Bhole) been officially reclassified as "Terrors" and not GOOs?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Graham Robinson
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
In memory of Tara, my beloved Wolfhound-Deerhound cross. Flew away Feb 2016, still missed.
mbmbmbmbmb
No, the Watcher is still a GOO.

Cheers,
Graham
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kolby Reddish
United States
Nampa
Idaho
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
AmadanNaBriona wrote:
Hasn't the Watcher (and the Bhole) been officially reclassified as "Terrors" and not GOOs?


I thought so too.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Graham Robinson
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
In memory of Tara, my beloved Wolfhound-Deerhound cross. Flew away Feb 2016, still missed.
mbmbmbmbmb
This thread seems to be the most recent commentary on it, and is quite clear that only the Bhole has been downgraded.

Cheers,
Graham
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dr Gosburo Coffin
Germany
Frankfurt am Main
Germany
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
The FAQ in the Yuggoth rulebook explicitly states that Nyarlathotep can gain Elder Signs (but no Power) for assigning Kill/Pain results to the Watcher.

Not sure about the Cthulhu question though ... From the wording on the faction sheet, I'd say that 'nearly killing' the Watcher doesn't meet the requirement, but I would definitely have no problem with the opposite ruling.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kolby Reddish
United States
Nampa
Idaho
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
DrGosburoCoffin wrote:
The FAQ in the Yuggoth rulebook explicitly states that Nyarlathotep can gain Elder Signs (but no Power) for assigning Kill/Pain results to the Watcher.

Not sure about the Cthulhu question though ... From the wording on the faction sheet, I'd say that 'nearly killing' the Watcher doesn't meet the requirement, but I would definitely have no problem with the opposite ruling.


The abilities say the same thing, so I'd play that if you allow Nyarly to gain Elder Signs, Cthulhu can also gain a spellbook. (The FAQ adds the language about "assigning").
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Graham Robinson
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
In memory of Tara, my beloved Wolfhound-Deerhound cross. Flew away Feb 2016, still missed.
mbmbmbmbmb
DrGosburoCoffin wrote:
The FAQ in the Yuggoth rulebook explicitly states that Nyarlathotep can gain Elder Signs (but no Power) for assigning Kill/Pain results to the Watcher.

Not sure about the Cthulhu question though ... From the wording on the faction sheet, I'd say that 'nearly killing' the Watcher doesn't meet the requirement, but I would definitely have no problem with the opposite ruling.


Actually the wording in the faq is a lot vaguer. It merely says he can gain elder signs from harbinger. It doesn't state that he gets it for any rolled pains, though it could be implied.

Cheers, Graham
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kolby Reddish
United States
Nampa
Idaho
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
therealbuserian wrote:
DrGosburoCoffin wrote:
The FAQ in the Yuggoth rulebook explicitly states that Nyarlathotep can gain Elder Signs (but no Power) for assigning Kill/Pain results to the Watcher.

Not sure about the Cthulhu question though ... From the wording on the faction sheet, I'd say that 'nearly killing' the Watcher doesn't meet the requirement, but I would definitely have no problem with the opposite ruling.


Actually the wording in the faq is a lot vaguer. It merely says he can gain elder signs from harbinger. It doesn't state that he gets it for any rolled pains, though it could be implied.

Cheers, Graham


I'm confused. If he's not getting them from Harbinger, where are they coming from?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tiago Gouveia
Brazil
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
reddish22 wrote:
therealbuserian wrote:
DrGosburoCoffin wrote:
The FAQ in the Yuggoth rulebook explicitly states that Nyarlathotep can gain Elder Signs (but no Power) for assigning Kill/Pain results to the Watcher.

Not sure about the Cthulhu question though ... From the wording on the faction sheet, I'd say that 'nearly killing' the Watcher doesn't meet the requirement, but I would definitely have no problem with the opposite ruling.


Actually the wording in the faq is a lot vaguer. It merely says he can gain elder signs from harbinger. It doesn't state that he gets it for any rolled pains, though it could be implied.

Cheers, Graham


I'm confused. If he's not getting them from Harbinger, where are they coming from?


The doubt here is: is CC alowed to gain ES fron EITHER kill or pain on the watcher... or just kills?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dr Gosburo Coffin
Germany
Frankfurt am Main
Germany
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Kolby, I see your point regarding the similarity in the wording. And as I mentioned before, I'm absolutely fine with letting Cthulhu have his spellbook for assigning a Kill to the Watcher.

therealbuserian wrote:
Actually the wording in the faq is a lot vaguer. It merely says he can gain elder signs from harbinger. It doesn't state that he gets it for any rolled pains, though it could be implied.

Cheers, Graham

Unfortunately, I don't have access to the Yuggoth FAQ right now to check the exact wording. But according to the CW Compendium doc, Harbinger triggers in battles "in which one or more enemy Great Old Ones are Pained or Killed". In conjunction with what I remember from the FAQ entry, the situation doesn't seem to be all that vague to me. Paining or Killing the Watcher in a battle that involves Nyalathotep will trigger Harbinger (see ability description), but since the cost to awaken the Watcher is 0, Crawling Chaos cannot earn any Power from Harbinger, just Elder Signs (see FAQ).


In general, it seems to be the intent that assigning a Pain/Kill result (as opposed to actually removing a miniature from the board as a consequence of the Kill or routing it via the Pain) is what triggers abilities, satisfies spellbook requirements, etc. If I remember correctly, another example for this is that Nyarlathotep will also earn the benefits of Harbinger when assigning a Kill to Rhan-Tegoth, regardless of his Eternal ability.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dr Gosburo Coffin
Germany
Frankfurt am Main
Germany
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Ugh ... looks like I'm a bit dense today. zombie It finally clicked in my brain that the vagueness in the FAQ is related to the fact that the Watcher ignores Pain results, so it's unclear if Harbinger also triggers on a Pain or if it definitely needs a Kill, right?

Sorry, I have no answer to that ...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kolby Reddish
United States
Nampa
Idaho
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
DrGosburoCoffin wrote:
Ugh ... looks like I'm a bit dense today. :zombie: It finally clicked in my brain that the vagueness in the FAQ is related to the fact that the Watcher ignores Pain results, so it's unclear if Harbinger also triggers on a Pain or if it definitely needs a Kill, right?

Sorry, I have no answer to that ...


I still think that makes it just like Eternal from Rhan Tegoth though, as you pointed out.

I think Eternal uses the same language, so I would say that it is meant to trigger off of pains. If you think about it another way, when you assign a Kill to the Watcher, he isn't really killed either, similar to the pain results, but that does trigger.

Keep in mind this is what I would argue the rule "is" because of the answers we have. I personally think Harbinger shouldn't trigger off of Eternal (and by extension, the Watcher situations).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Graham Robinson
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
In memory of Tara, my beloved Wolfhound-Deerhound cross. Flew away Feb 2016, still missed.
mbmbmbmbmb
Just to be clear, this comes out of me modding PBF 60, which has just finished with Chaos scoring 6 Elder Signs by thumping the Watcher repeatedly. I did rule that this was fine, as that is certainly how I read the intent of the FAQ entry. But it isn't entirely clear, and given that the Watcher is a weak opponent for Chaos to go after, I'm not sure it should be that way.

So, some official clarification would be good.

Cheers,
Graham
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kolby Reddish
United States
Nampa
Idaho
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
therealbuserian wrote:
Just to be clear, this comes out of me modding PBF 60, which has just finished with Chaos scoring 6 Elder Signs by thumping the Watcher repeatedly. I did rule that this was fine, as that is certainly how I read the intent of the FAQ entry. But it isn't entirely clear, and given that the Watcher is a weak opponent for Chaos to go after, I'm not sure it should be that way.

So, some official clarification would be good.

Cheers,
Graham


Yeah, I agree. I don't think CC needs a power bump either.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Arthur Petersen
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
it's your sister Cheryl!
badge
I work for Petersen Games. AMA
mbmbmbmbmb
therealbuserian wrote:
Just to be clear, this comes out of me modding PBF 60, which has just finished with Chaos scoring 6 Elder Signs by thumping the Watcher repeatedly. I did rule that this was fine, as that is certainly how I read the intent of the FAQ entry. But it isn't entirely clear, and given that the Watcher is a weak opponent for Chaos to go after, I'm not sure it should be that way.

So, some official clarification would be good.

Cheers,
Graham


I can't clarify in a thread with Kolby whistle

jk. One for the OMR...

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kolby Reddish
United States
Nampa
Idaho
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
existoid wrote:
therealbuserian wrote:
Just to be clear, this comes out of me modding PBF 60, which has just finished with Chaos scoring 6 Elder Signs by thumping the Watcher repeatedly. I did rule that this was fine, as that is certainly how I read the intent of the FAQ entry. But it isn't entirely clear, and given that the Watcher is a weak opponent for Chaos to go after, I'm not sure it should be that way.

So, some official clarification would be good.

Cheers,
Graham


I can't clarify in a thread with Kolby whistle

jk. One for the OMR...



Feel free! I'll only bug you a little angry
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron K
United States
Phoenix
Arizona
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
I was really hoping for some clarification here. Is this addressed in the hardback rule book from OS2?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.