Chris
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You can have loads of negative memories about how Dave screwed you over in the last turn or whatever, but some games themselves can leave a really sour taste in your mouth for rules / production quality / design.

I'm posting this now as I've been getting increasingly pissed off with Vast: The Crystal Caverns. Lovely idea, great artwork, well made... but the rules are astonishingly bad and vague. huge chunks of basic gameplay totally missing. and then there's a lot of very visible evidence of late game design hacks to appease play testers etc.

When the (Community generated) FAQ / Player aids are LONGER than the original rules... something's not right, and it's making me maaaaaad. I want to be rude about it, and I want the designers to know that I think they screwed up. Which makes me look like a muppet I know... but there you go. But when you're sitting there thinking "This is easy. I know it's easy... so why does none of this make any sense?!?"...

I expect mostly I'm annoyed as I back very few kickstarters, and this kind of inexcusable mess is something KS addicts see a hell of a lot I guess?

As it goes, we struggled through the 60 minute game in about 2.5hours, and it worked, it was fine, could become really good, but man... I'm mad as hell and I won't take it anymore!!!!

So which games have you ended up snarling at just from seeing the box and for what reasons?
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Madison
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None, really. A minor "meh" at best.
 
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Ken Lewis
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Game rules and production values have disappointed me, but I can't say they have made me angry, resentful, or bitter. That is probably because I don't keep those types of games around for long.
 
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Adam Taylor
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A lot of Kickstarter games leave me feeling this way.

Bad games can be simply avoided but it's the wasted opportunities that get to me.

I've played loads of Kickstarted games that had the potential to be really interesting but instead of the core game being properly playtested and developed they're just thrown straight onto Kickstarter and then get more and more untested stuff thrown at them to meet the endless stretch-goals.
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Would not raise to the level of 'angry/resentful/bitter' but as someone who plays many wargames it is a pet peeve of mine when the box claims "1-however many" players when in fact there is no solo variant. Just being able to play both sides of a game should not be reason for publishers to put a "1" on the box or in adverts.
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Brad Miller
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FFGs constant re-editioning pisses me off. Spend hundreds on Descent? New Edition. Battlelore, Fury of Dracula, Runebound, Game of Thrones...

Not doing those anymore.
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1 Lucky Texan
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Concept comes to mind, but I dunno if I blew my top, I just used a timer and rule suggestions from posts at the game's entry.
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CARL SKUTSCH
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Victory in Europe. Lovely map, good looking classic wooden wargame blocks, horrible horrible rules. I mean, they looked ok, until I started reading them. Ambiguity after ambiguity in rule after rule. It was truly unplayable as written. I traded it away (to someone whom I told "look, I think the rules suck, but if you still want it..."). I will never Kickstart a Columbia Games project again. Grrrr. Still bitter indeed.

Read some of the other BGG raters:

"Unfortunately, I found this game not ready for publication.
The rules are still not finished a year after release.
The map is too small for the number of blocks used.
I feel the scale was wrong for the mechanics."

"Rushed production, map too small. Gobs of rules questions, even after the update the designer is literally saying on these forums "Play it this way until I hear back from Columbia." Right and left hand do not know what they are doing. "

"The rules are very ambiguous and frankly a mess. We tried playing through a few turns and had so many questions we just threw our arms up in the air. "

"One of biggest dissapointments of this year.
Clearly game was not playetested very well, by time game arrived in Europe, there was already second version of rules."
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Alexandre P.
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The Cards of Cthulhu

The rulebook is, in my opinion, awful as when reading it I cannot see what are the paragraphs and what are the sub-paragraphs.

Plus some rules are not specified or very difficult to remember:
- you can rereoll but it's neither specified "once" or "x times",
- by getting a "1" on a die you lose a coin ... but which one die ? I never remember ...,
- you have tests to do: the result of your dice versus the level of the horror, the number of cultists ... and I had to check again each time what was the timing,
...

I think I have played it 5 times and needed to check the rules while playing the 5 times which was a first time for me.

Oh ... and a special mention for the 4 white dice you can only obtain by buying an object ... which can be revealed at the first turn ... while you have not enough money to buy it during the first turn !

But I sold it for a good portion of the buying price so ... that's not too bad.
 
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Eric Chiriboga
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I really dislike Fantasy Flight's new dual-rulebook system. I now have no idea which rules are in which book and have to look through both. It's frustrating.

Also, Disc Duelers' rulebook is missing a few key things.

But, I'm not THAT upset or angry over them. Just a little frustrated.
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Richard Dewsbery
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Mare Nostrum: Empires is making a pretty good fist of it right now. No idea about the rulebook, because my cy is presumably in the box somewhere on this planet - just not in my hands, where it ought to have been last October.
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Nathan Bergom
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Myth.

(C'mon, we all knew someone was going to post it)

At least I've gotten to a point where I'm not really bitter about it any more, just disappointed. So much potential, so poorly executed.

These days, I look on it as more of a learning experience. I'm much more critical of Kickstarter and pro reviewers now, and that's been to my benefit.
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Martin V
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I can't remember the titles, but a couple games and a game aid from Kickstarter really disappointed me. It turned me off to Kickstarter. The only consistency I experienced on KS WAS the disappointment. Really, how long before I learn my lesson??? The flipside of that is that I don't back a game that ends up being good. I figure that if it's good enough it'll get published, and hopefully polished in the process.

As far as the OP's example of VAST, that was a title I was looking into. Perhaps if they clean up the rules and such and do a 2.0, then I'll consider it. For the time being, thanks for the heads up, I'll pass on that title. Too many other good games out there, and as it stands, I don't have time to even play those, so I won't bother with this one. Sorry about your poor game experience.
 
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John Prewitt
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Mistfall.
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79strat wrote:
Mistfall.
oh please elaborate. I was on the fence about that for a while and never got it.
 
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Pete
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Windopaene wrote:
FFGs constant re-editioning pisses me off. Spend hundreds on Descent? New Edition. Battlelore, Fury of Dracula, Runebound, Game of Thrones...

Not doing those anymore.
It's like they adopted the Games Workshop model.

Pete (got off both crazy trains)
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Bishop of East Anglia
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I'm, I'm afraid there's been a mistake. The man who has been speaking to you is an impostor. He is not in fact the Bishop of East Anglia, but a man wanted by the police. I am the Bishop of East Anglia and anyone who doesn't believe me can look me up
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plezercruz wrote:
Windopaene wrote:
FFGs constant re-editioning pisses me off. Spend hundreds on Descent? New Edition. Battlelore, Fury of Dracula, Runebound, Game of Thrones...

Not doing those anymore.
It's like they adopted the Games Workshop model.

Pete (got off both crazy trains)


YES!
 
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I'm, I'm afraid there's been a mistake. The man who has been speaking to you is an impostor. He is not in fact the Bishop of East Anglia, but a man wanted by the police. I am the Bishop of East Anglia and anyone who doesn't believe me can look me up
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One thought Bump in the Night

I'll have others.



There used to be geeklists for this sort of thread. I found an old one Good Games Bad Rules
 
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Daniel Blumentritt
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FFG refusing to ever release a comprehensive rules edit or FAQ for Fury of Dracula, and then coming out with a completely incompatible new edition rather than tweaking/clarifying only a few things in a way that the 2nd edition would still be playable by the new release rules.
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Jeff
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Two come to mind for different reasons.

Fury of Dracula (third edition) comes with two rule books. A "How to Play" book, and a "Reference" book. The rules are terrible. They're so bad that the rules as stated in one of the books, sometimes is at odds with how they are written in the other book. Pure trash. It's too bad too, because if you can wade through the garbage, including a FAQ file that doesn't address all the issues either, then the game is actually very good.

Legends of Andor - what a great idea. What a beautiful production. Then there's the game play. There are hordes of creatures coming to attack the castle. You must defend the castle to win the game, but with every enemy you kill it brings the game to a more abrupt end. So, killing the enemy is bad, not killing the enemy is bad. There's no winning.
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Chris
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Windopaene wrote:
FFGs constant re-editioning pisses me off. Spend hundreds on Descent? New Edition. Battlelore, Fury of Dracula, Runebound, Game of Thrones...

Not doing those anymore.


It seems to be part of their business model these days, in the same way that, for a long time (and still continuing to a certain extent), locked-in and constantly-changing binary file formats were a major part of Microsoft's business model.

Phobos (and the dynamics for assimilating it) together with the map changes fundamentally mean Mission: Red Planet 1 and 2 aren't compatible. The addition of courtesans and Spring together with the downgrading of the bishop fundamentally changed the balance of powers in Condottiere -- which wouldn't have been so bad, but FF's reconfiguring means that there (intentionally) aren't now enough level 1 mercenaries in the deck to be able to play with the eurogames' rules without arbitrarily repurposing courtesans. They could, at least, have provided the handful of extra merc cards as extras if people wanted to play the original variant.

It wouldn't be so bad if the games had universally been improved but, as best I can tell, it's only Fury of Dracula that's really benefitted from the makeover.

 
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Matt Steski
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Windopaene wrote:
FFGs constant re-editioning pisses me off. Spend hundreds on Descent? New Edition. Battlelore, Fury of Dracula, Runebound, Game of Thrones...

Not doing those anymore.


I never understand the complaints about "constant" new editions from FFG because "constant" apparently means "once a decade."

10 years seems like a pretty good lifespan for a game. And in a lot of cases these new editions are a good thing - A Game of Thrones: The Board Game (Second Edition) is miles above A Game of Thrones (first edition), for example.
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