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Subject: Several questions after 1st play.. rss

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Chris Darsaklis
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Well i really enjoyed the game but i'm a bit curious if i was playing this right so any help is welcome. So there we go:

1) In 1,2,3 players i must remove all cards with poker symbols. Should i also remove 4 cards from each deck as it is explained in the basic rules for 4 players?

2) Can i engage in range battle but flee from the melee battle?

3) Can i use adrenaline to kill 1 more zombie in a ranged roll when the target with lighting appears? Or adrenaline is only used in melee?

4) Can i flee from a card's effect? Or can i flee only from battles?

5) A level 3 card says: ''if you have the [kids token] spend 3 [bullets] and then discard the [kids token]. '' With 'spend' does it mean that i use them or lose them? As i understand from the art is that i lose 3 bullet tokens.

6) There's a card that gives you 6 points for a map token. Does it also gives 12 points in case you have 2 map tokens?


Thanks in advance!
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n s
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1 - Yes.
2 - Yes.
3 - I think no.
4 - Only from battle i think.
5 - Lose those bullets. The kid steal those from you, and run away.
6 - I think no.
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Chris Darsaklis
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Thanks for your answers! Your ''thoughts'' in 3 4 and 6 stil troubles me though..
 
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Mindy Basi
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I do not believe you can flee from a ranged battle. On the other hand, you don't suffer effects from it, so it's not needed.

And yes, you can kill another zombie with adrenaline if you get the target/lightning side of the die.
 
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Deranged
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Kwill2 wrote:
I do not believe you can flee from a ranged battle. On the other hand, you don't suffer effects from it, so it's not needed.

And yes, you can kill another zombie with adrenaline if you get the target/lightning side of the die.


But not in ranged battle, right?

The question was if you can flee after the ranged battle, before melee; I do believe the answer is yes.
 
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Denis Nabatov
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kira13 wrote:
3) Can i use adrenaline to kill 1 more zombie in a ranged roll when the target with lighting appears? Or adrenaline is only used in melee?


"...for each "TARGET" or "TARGET with LIGHT" , kill 1 zombie.
Important Note: During a ranged roll, all other results are ignored." (page 7)

Therefore, only one more zombies can not be killed
 
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Chris Darsaklis
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Cassiopey wrote:
kira13 wrote:
3) Can i use adrenaline to kill 1 more zombie in a ranged roll when the target with lighting appears? Or adrenaline is only used in melee?


"...for each "TARGET" or "TARGET with LIGHT" , kill 1 zombie.
Important Note: During a ranged roll, all other results are ignored." (page 7)

Therefore, only one more zombies can not be killed


Ok but i don't ignore the target with lightning. And i kill 1 zombie as the rulebook says. But still this doesn't clarify that i can't use the adrenaline..
 
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Denis Nabatov
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Derang3d wrote:
[q="Kwill2"]The question was if you can flee after the ranged battle, before melee; I do believe the answer is yes.


"Before any melee round, a player may flee to skip the fight altogether" (page 8)
 
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Deranged
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kira13 wrote:
Cassiopey wrote:
kira13 wrote:
3) Can i use adrenaline to kill 1 more zombie in a ranged roll when the target with lighting appears? Or adrenaline is only used in melee?


"...for each "TARGET" or "TARGET with LIGHT" , kill 1 zombie.
Important Note: During a ranged roll, all other results are ignored." (page 7)

Therefore, only one more zombies can not be killed


Ok but i don't ignore the target with lightning. And i kill 1 zombie as the rulebook says. But still this doesn't clarify that i can't use the adrenaline..


Yes it does. The game asks you to look for targets, and tells you to ignore anything that might also be on the die .

The game will not see lightning, therefore you do not have the option to use adrenaline.
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Patrick C.
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kisnord wrote:
1 - Yes.
2 - Yes.
3 - I think no.
4 - Only from battle i think.
5 - Lose those bullets. The kid steal those from you, and run away.
6 - I think no.


Regarding #6:

I googled this and found a link directly to a play session hosted and promoted by Asmodee on their own web site. The person writing specifically played to get and score 12 points for both map tokens.

I think this should be plainly spelled out at the beginning of the game because it's such a massive point jump that allows you to avoid a lot of zombies and still win. If everyone knows at the beginning then they can compete more aggressively for those tokens.

Otherwise it's a blowout and it feels unfair - that's how it was when I played scoring the 12 points while my wife had more combat points, but I still won. She won't make the mistake again!
 
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Chris Darsaklis
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travvller wrote:
kisnord wrote:
1 - Yes.
2 - Yes.
3 - I think no.
4 - Only from battle i think.
5 - Lose those bullets. The kid steal those from you, and run away.
6 - I think no.


Regarding #6:

I googled this and found a link directly to a play session hosted and promoted by Asmodee on their own web site. The person writing specifically played to get and score 12 points for both map tokens.

I think this should be plainly spelled out at the beginning of the game because it's such a massive point jump that allows you to avoid a lot of zombies and still win. If everyone knows at the beginning then they can compete more aggressively for those tokens.

Otherwise it's a blowout and it feels unfair - that's how it was when I played scoring the 12 points while my wife had more combat points, but I still won. She won't make the mistake again!


Yes that was the session i read and confused. I think that too, that they were playing it wrong. 12 points it's a huge boost in the game. I think the 2 tokens exist so that players will compete to get the only card that gives them the 6 points.
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Patrick C.
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kira13 wrote:
travvller wrote:
kisnord wrote:
1 - Yes.
2 - Yes.
3 - I think no.
4 - Only from battle i think.
5 - Lose those bullets. The kid steal those from you, and run away.
6 - I think no.


Regarding #6:

I googled this and found a link directly to a play session hosted and promoted by Asmodee on their own web site. The person writing specifically played to get and score 12 points for both map tokens.

I think this should be plainly spelled out at the beginning of the game because it's such a massive point jump that allows you to avoid a lot of zombies and still win. If everyone knows at the beginning then they can compete more aggressively for those tokens.

Otherwise it's a blowout and it feels unfair - that's how it was when I played scoring the 12 points while my wife had more combat points, but I still won. She won't make the mistake again!


Yes that was the session i read and confused. I think that too, that they were playing it wrong. 12 points it's a huge boost in the game. I think the 2 tokens exist so that players will compete to get the only card that gives them the 6 points.


I understand that it's powerful, but it's pretty odd that the publisher has this posted to their own web site:

https://www.asmodee.us/en/news/2016/5/26/first-player-hit-z-...

The end of the report is important:
Quote:
In the end, my sneaky veteran move ended up giving me the most victory points
.

Bold emphasis mine. The person writing the report has played the game more than once.

It seems to me that the point could be that players should never let anyone get both tokens and this would result in higher bidding and more player interaction.

I believe there's an argument to be made that the huge number of points involved is actually intentional and only breaks the game when people don't know that it can happen.
 
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Deranged
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I believe there were two map tokens so's to instill conflict, not so you could score double. There's only one bunker, so that makes sense to me.

However, I believe the arguments on both sides warrant taking a step back and waiting for the Word of Mr. Wallace.
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James Clarke
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kira13 wrote:
5) A level 3 card says: ''if you have the [kids token] spend 3 [bullets] and then discard the [kids token]. '' With 'spend' does it mean that i use them or lose them? As i understand from the art is that i lose 3 bullet tokens.


This card caused dispute on two levels in our game:

1. Do you "spend" (get the benefit of) the 3 tokens, or lose them?

2. What if you don't have 3? Do you give up all you have, or none? (There are other cards which spell out the consequence of not yielding enough tokens).

Thoughts?
 
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Michael Van Biesbrouck
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The promised land card says 'if you have' rather than 'for each', so I don't think that it is intended to pay out double. (Compare with the biohazard penalty cards.) Grammatically, only one of the tokens gains 6-pointedness from this card. Playthrough videos and promotional articles frequently contain errors. 6 points is huge in this game.

The ranged roll is part of the fight step that comes after the event, so it shouldn't have an effect on the fight. You spend resources as a result of the auction and keys, but nobody expects to get a benefit from them. They should probably have written 'discard' (like on the pack of dogs card) any time you weren't getting the resource benefit.
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Patrick C.
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Derang3d wrote:
I believe there were two map tokens so's to instill conflict, not so you could score double. There's only one bunker, so that makes sense to me.

However, I believe the arguments on both sides warrant taking a step back and waiting for the Word of Mr. Wallace.


Agreed. I don't see either side to be clear cut and I wish the publisher if not Wallace would post something to clarify because it can have such a huge impact on both how the game is played.
 
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Chris Keates
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Yep, the map tokens came up in our game last night... Can we get a ruling on this?
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Chris Darsaklis
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themothman421 wrote:
Yep, the map tokens came up in our game last night... Can we get a ruling on this?


I think the most of us agree that the maximum points you can get is 6 points from map tokens. So if you have 2 it's also the same, 6 points.

That's because the final scoring usually is at range from 9-15 points (in my games so far), so the 12 points for 2 map tokens is very unbalanced.
 
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Patrick C.
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kira13 wrote:
themothman421 wrote:
Yep, the map tokens came up in our game last night... Can we get a ruling on this?


I think the most of us agree that the maximum points you can get is 6 points from map tokens. So if you have 2 it's also the same, 6 points.

That's because the final scoring usually is at range from 9-15 points (in my games so far), so the 12 points for 2 map tokens is very unbalanced.


It's only really unbalanced if the players don't know or they do know and they let someone get both without making them pay for it.

My last 2p game my wife was aggressive and took the hardest routes to get points. She had one map token, didn't get the 2nd. Her game ending was a nail biter as she was out of all her resources and somehow rolled kill after kill on her dice. There was a moment when she had one last die to roll and it was going to determine whether she made it or not. It was exciting seeing her succeed. At that point I thought she had me. The end score was something like 19 to 9 . . . and then we remembered the award tokens. I ended up beating her even though I played it safe. She was aggressive and successful. And it was fun seeing her roll right down to the very last person.

If she had been able to get the 2nd map and it had been worth 6 more points she would have won.

Beating her using the award points at the end felt cheap and unearned given how she had rolled kill after kill with no way to escape.

Me personally, I want this game to have both risk and a reward for risk if you luck out. I'm not sure I'm looking for "balance" if it means you can play it safe, never take on the zombies, and walk away with a win.

Also, I think a small group of people commenting here hardly represents a position of authority. Until the publisher or the designer chime in I say the jury is still out. When/if they do post I hope they'll explain the reasoning behind whatever the rule actually is.
 
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Michael Van Biesbrouck
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What do you do if both map tokens are on the same route? Happened in my first game. I also got Timmy and then saw both of his events on the same path in the wrong order during that game. There was as a biohazard double-whammy. If you aren't playing with four players, nasty coincidences happen fairly often.
 
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Darren Belcher
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I know English is an imprecise language, but I personally think it's pretty clear that going by the wording of the card,


Quote:
If you have a map token, it is worth 6 points


you get 6 points for each (12 total) if you have both. IMO the "it" clearly refers to the token itself, not the circumstance of having one or more tokens.

Just my 2c. That's how I'll be playing it. Mind you, I spent 10 minutes looking for missing pages in the rule book explaining the rest of the special tokens as well

If both come up on the same route then you have to bid appropriately I guess.

As for both of Timmy's events showing up, since you discard the token after each it shouldn't matter which one you see first should it? Or even that they are on the same path?

Cheers.
 
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Deranged
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I couldn't agree less - for me it's patently clear you do not get 12 points. You get six points if you have a token, anything more is overqualifying.

As for Timmy; one event is good, and one event is bad. If you get the bad one first in the path that sucks as you'll never get the good Timmy, because you'll discard the token. So yeah it does matter - just not much.

Poll: Hit Z Road Map Token Poll
Should you get six or twelve points for having both map tokens when you hit the pay-off point?
Six? Twelve?
Six. Obviously.
Twelve. Obviously.
I think six.
I think twelve.
I don't know.
      15 answers
Poll created by Derang3d
 
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James Clarke
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Derang3d wrote:
I couldn't agree less - for me it's patently clear you do not get 12 points. You get six points if you have a token, anything more is overqualifying.

As for Timmy; one event is good, and one event is bad. If you get the bad one first in the path that sucks as you'll never get the good Timmy, because you'll discard the token. So yeah it does matter - just not much.

Poll: Hit Z Road Map Token Poll
Should you get six or twelve points for having both map tokens when you hit the pay-off point?
Six? Twelve?
Six. Obviously.
Twelve. Obviously.
I think six.
I think twelve.
I don't know.
      15 answers
Poll created by Derang3d


Or another option, ask Martin Wallace, (which I have done).

I shall post any response.
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Deranged
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Well of course, mr. Wallace's word is law on this topic. This is more in anticipation of that word .
 
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Benji
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With the map (at least one), you are able to find the secure location. It makes no sense finding the secure location twice.
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