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Subject: Designer answer to system usage and mine detonation questions. rss

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Andy
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In real-time Captain Sonar, do you really need to move in the middle of two systems activations, or may you activate a system immediately followed by another system?
YES, you HAVE to made one move at minimum between 2 systems activations.

Also, may you detonate a mine immediately after using a system, or do you need to move in the middle of activating a system and finding a mine?
You also HAVE to made at minimum ONE move between it.
And to detonate a mine you also need to have ALL the red "lights" clear in the Engine room :o)

Can you detonate a mine immediately after dropping the mine?
NO you can't. You have to made ONE MOVE.

We know the English version of the rules are not so clear on this points. But, with MATAGOT we will made these changes for the next US print in september 2016.

Your comments are very clear :o)

Captain Roberto


With these answers, I think a good way to describe the rules is that each team is only allowed 1 STOP (either system activation or mine detonation) between movements.
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Dan
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Unless I'm mistaken, none of these points are in the rule book. I'm sure this completely changes the way a lot of us are playing the game.

In the rulebook, it definitely says we can trigger a mine "at any time".
Does this mean I can't detonate a salvo of mines one after another?
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Andy
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According to the designer's answers, no, you cannot detonate more than 1 mine per STOP. Only 1 system activation or mine detonation is allowed per STOP. Only 1 STOP is allowed between moves.

It sounds like there were some translation issues with the English rulebook. The second printing in September should hopefully fix them.

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Leon Stansfield
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Arebane wrote:
And to detonate a mine you also need to have ALL the red "lights" clear in the Engine room

This is absolutely illogical. And it slows down the game. And it reduces the permanent danger of mines. I will not play by this rules.
(I'm happy with all other rule clarifications by the way.)
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Dan
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jumpwalker wrote:
Arebane wrote:
And to detonate a mine you also need to have ALL the red "lights" clear in the Engine room

This is absolutely illogical. And it slows down the game. And it reduces the permanent danger of mines. I will not play by this rules.
(I'm happy with all other rule clarifications by the way.)


Agreed. It's enough that you need to fill the system bar to place the mine.

At least the English rules are pretty clear that you can activate them at any time.

And this part here:
Quote:
Can you detonate a mine immediately after dropping the mine?
NO you can't. You have to made ONE MOVE.


This is a contradiction. One minute you say I need to move once before detonating it, the next minute you say I need to fill the system bar again.
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George
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No, he didn't say fill the system gauge again (First Mate) he said make sure the Mine system isn't broken down (Engineer). If you are remotely detonating the mine via radio signal or something, then that makes sense to me.

So dropping mines takes filling up the gauges (First Mate). But detonating doesn't.
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Robert F-C
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I'd still like to get an answer to whether you can activate a system (usually silence) immediately after you dive, or whether you must first move once.
 
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Raf Tormans
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Can we already download a new version of the rules PDF somewhere with these new explanations?
 
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frank chang
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This is a pile of mess!

I would like to know what is the designer's original intent.
Does he feel activating multiple systems back to back too powerful? So players have to forced to move, and you can't detonate a mine after dropping it.


I'm thinking of getting a 10 seconds sand timer. If one team activates a system, they just flip the timer and have to wait 10 seconds before they can activate another system.
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George
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I haven't played yet, but I assumed the reason for having to move between "stop" activations was so that the other team got an opportunity to activate. Otherwise, when you are ready to resume after a stop, it would just be a shouting match of who can yell "Stop" right away again first.
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Christian K
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We thought of a priority system. After one 'stop' activation the other team gets priority activate a system, then it goes back to the first team and so on until noo e wants to activate any more systems. I think it is pure and quite clear.
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frank chang
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Muemmelmann wrote:
After one 'stop' activation the other team gets priority activate a system, then it goes back to the first team and so on until no o e wants to activate any more systems. I think it is pure and quite clear.


I am thinking of the exact same thing, but this priority needs to have a time limit. Otherwise the other team is completely immune until they activate a system, and the game would stall.
 
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Christian K
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Sure but this works within normal social limits.

A "We activate torpedos," resolving
A "Do you wanna activate anything?"
B "Hmm.. No"
A "Alright then we also activate silence"
 
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B. Perry
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That's exactly the way SC: Dice Duel pauses work. If one team just paused, the other has priority if both teams immediately want to pause again.
 
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rock lobster
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jumpwalker wrote:
Arebane wrote:
And to detonate a mine you also need to have ALL the red "lights" clear in the Engine room

This is absolutely illogical. And it slows down the game. And it reduces the permanent danger of mines. I will not play by this rules.
(I'm happy with all other rule clarifications by the way.)


So true. Not to mention that the MINES could be set with timers and not require any human-agency when detonating. Even TORPEDOES can be set to detonate on a timer/distance as opposed to impact as the catalyst.

This thread makes me sad.
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Hans Moleman
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WAIT -- so you need all symbols CLEARED to:
- DROP a mine, and [I agree]
- ACTIVATE a mine [don't agree]

That seems kind of weird.

I would imagine once the mine is release, it can be activated at any time. I figured it's like a proximity triggered mine -- people just won't activate their mine without an inclination of the other teams whereabouts.

THOUGH I do like the One system use with each move. Avoids the bombardment of all systems deploying at the same time -- esp if you it turns into a stop shouting match. I can't imagine the mess it would be if team A wants to stop and activate 3-4 systems -- when would it be appropriate for team B to chime in with their systems.
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rock lobster
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KingD21 wrote:
WAIT -- so you need all symbols CLEARED to:
- DROP a mine, and [I agree]
- ACTIVATE a mine [don't agree]

That seems kind of weird.

I would imagine once the mine is release, it can be activated at any time. I figured it's like a proximity triggered mine -- people just won't activate their mine without an inclination of the other teams whereabouts.

THOUGH I do like the One system use with each move. Avoids the bombardment of all systems deploying at the same time -- esp if you it turns into a stop shouting match. I can't imagine the mess it would be if team A wants to stop and activate 3-4 systems -- when would it be appropriate for team B to chime in with their systems.


Our group is fine with alternating Systems.

a) STOP; launching drone - resolved
b) Other Team has System-Priority; Activating? Y(announce/check/resolve)/N(goto C))
c) STOP; firing torpedoes.

Long story short, this is a 500 million dollar boat with 200 crew. That it can't "alpha strike" in real-time Mode means there is NO real-time.


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Raf Tormans
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This is a game that if you find yourself more comfortable with your own rules I think this is entirely possible.

I do understand the decision from the designers that you need your weapon systems operational to drop and activate the mine.

This verion of a mine in the game isn't a weapon that is triggered automatically when the enemy sub is going over it.

It's the other crew that identifies the enemy sub's location and then needs to trigger the mine remotely to explode. To launch this trigger you need to have your weapon system available. So it makes sense to me.

So you can activate the mine at ANY time but you need to have your weapon systems operational.

@Designers: Please make a PDF of the rules available as soon as possible.
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rock lobster
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RaffeR wrote:

This verion of a mine in the game isn't a weapon that is triggered automatically when the enemy sub is going over it.


Are you sure? This game cannot have impact mines based only on the functional limits of hidden movement and hidden mines.

And even IRL, impact mines can suffer from: Duds, late-triggers(impact; indirect dmg), and early-triggers(impact; false positives).

I felt the "triggering" of mines is to assist/maintain hidden movement. Other than that, the mines seem to be pretty standard thematically (impact, timers, manual remote triggers).
 
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Lee K.
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Perhaps a proper compromise to some of this controversy would be:

To DROP a mine, that system must be charged. (First Mate)

To DETONATE a mine, that system must be available (Engineer)

I don't recall how we played it during our sessions, but I think that's the way we will do it in the future (unless we receive definitive guidance otherwise).
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Big Head Zach
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lmkedm wrote:
Perhaps a proper compromise to some of this controversy would be:

To DROP a mine, that system must be charged. (First Mate)

To DETONATE a mine, that system must be available (Engineer)

I don't recall how we played it during our sessions, but I think that's the way we will do it in the future (unless we receive definitive guidance otherwise).


That's how I resolved this weirdness - the charging of the system simulates the prepping and loading of a mine into the launcher, but the system itself also houses the remote detonator, therefore it can't be broken when you want to set off a mine.
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Jeffrey Speer
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We played last night and this does clarify something, because the team captain would charge sonar and drone, and then launch them both basically to eliminate my lie during a stop.
 
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Big Head Zach
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Kaworu17 wrote:
We played last night and this does clarify something, because the team captain would charge sonar and drone, and then launch them both basically to eliminate my lie during a stop.


Did you lie about your sector?
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Jeffrey Speer
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I sure did - not something I feel I will repeat now.
In hindsight, this seems obvious! Oh lord, haha. The heat of the moment!
 
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Person99 IntentionallyLeftBlank
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RaffeR wrote:


I do understand the decision from the designers that you need your weapon systems operational to drop and activate the mine.
<snip>

It's the other crew that identifies the enemy sub's location and then needs to trigger the mine remotely to explode. To launch this trigger you need to have your weapon system available. So it makes sense to me.

So you can activate the mine at ANY time but you need to have your weapon systems operational.


I'm with those that think this is not a good rule.

Dropping a Mine and detonating it are two different systems. Dropping a mine is a primarily mechanical system. Remotely detonating it is a non-mechanical system. How could they possibly be controlled by a single system?

In other words, this rule makes the mine system the only single system that controls two systems (dropping and detonating). And, as others have said, it does seriously reduce the potency of mines.
 
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