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Subject: Let's talk about the Lost Momentum + Epic Fail combo. rss

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Mike Beiter
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I have only played the game a handful of times, but in each game, the final round is heavily influenced by this combo.

It always comes down to the lead team about to cement their victory, when someone plays Epic Fail immediately on their final onslaught phase, and then it is immediately followed up by Lost Momentum, thus taking their entire final turn, allowing a new victor to emerge.

Or, on the other end, I see 2 teams are ahead and when the slightly behind team begins their final onslaught in the hopes of turning the tide, the lead team executes this combo, leaving them uncontested for the win.

I can see thematically how this works out and it makes sense that it can happen.
My only concern is that when it happens during the final round, losing ones entire onslaught phase can be brutal and crushing. It is not fun to think you have a final turn coming, and to lose it due to other peoples card draws. Especially after an hour or more of playing.

Every game we played ended with people enjoying it a lot, but there is always that one player who felt jipped or robbed of their chance to win due to that combo.

I am thinking for house rules purposes to ban Lost Momentum from being played on the last round of the game.
That way all players get a fair chance at their last big push for the win.

I am wondering if other people have had similar experiences. There are 4 Lost Momentum cards, so when ever Epic Fail is played, it always seems to be followed up by its friend.

I just do not want the meta of this game to start revolving around preventing this combo.
Everyone holding on to their counters etc. just so they don't have their final onslaught phase stolden from them.

Thoughts?
 
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Erik Kjerland
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Mike,

I'm okay with any house rule that anyone implements to tweak the game to their liking.

Some people remove all the Lost Momentum cards when teaching the game, for example. This has gone over well when I tried it, so for a possible 2nd printing, I'm considering adding this rule to Scrimmage play. It takes out some of the gotcha from the game that some lighter gamers might want to avoid. What do you all think of this?

As for the EF-LM combo, it is very powerful. I haven't seen it used excessively in the hundreds of games I've played/watched. But, if you find it irksome, your solution of no LMs in round 6 is reasonable.

I am interested in what others think of EF-LM. Is it too powerful? If so, another option is to change LM such that the KD/I portion only works when an opposing athlete knocks down/injures one of the active coach's athletes (not when the athlete is EFed).

When designing Slaughterball, I did include a lot of extreme possibilities to simulate the amazing athletic turns of events that can happen in sports games. EF-LM is one of those, as are Clothesline, Bamboozle, and Eat Steel. These are the moments of thrilling victories and agonizing defeats that I enjoy.

For coaches that want shallower ups and downs, limiting EF-LM is a viable option.
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Mike Beiter
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I do like the idea of removing them from Skrimmage games, especially when teaching.

My table is still a couple games away from leaving the "novice" level so I am sure more games can alter my opinion of these cards.

And I agree, I love the gotcha surprise that the cards can add. Especially when played by a player who is behind. They are a great catch up mechanic.

The core of said combo is that unlike other cards that deprive you of just an action or a single card, or to knock down an athlete, this card takes a whole turn. And that is huge.
I almost wonder if the card instead should just remove a single onslaught token, so it can weaken a turn but not completely deprive someone of it.
If the game went for many more rounds. Losing a turn is not as crippling.

I guess I would ask, how often does a player who gets hit with this combo in the late game win?

And how often does this combo show up in the late game?

I have some cut throat players and they love to hold card combos like that for when they can do the most damage.
 
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ogmund prime
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As there is only a single "Epic Fail" card I don't feel that it is a significant threat to tactical strategies. "Lost Momentum" on the other hand...I've both used and have had the Epic fail/Lost Momentum card used on me.

The Lost Momentum card has a very important in game effect. It in essence shortens downtime between team turns and serves to keep the games fast and furious. That said, it really sucks to have the glory of your perfect play combo stolen. Fortunately there are a few "must haves" to counter "Lost Momentum".

In scrimmage mode you are limited to the "Axed" card. A "Repeat Strategy" card will let you pull it again once used, or if you think your opponent is sitting on it you can "Steal Strategy".

In exhibition mode you gain the very valuable edge tokens. Unless you are playing the Swords of Damocles, you will probably have at least one available to you. There may be four Lost Momentum cards in the deck, but they can be countered with the four CANCEL CARD tokens in the edge pile. There are also four STEAL ONE CARD tokens and two PICK ONE DISCARD tokens to help capture that elusive "Axed" card. Team Nemesis Cleavers gain the ability "Thwart" which allows them to sacrifice an interrupt card to cancel a card just played. With three Cleavers on their starting lineup each having the thwart ability, the lost momentum card will rarely succeed.

Finally in League mode every team has the option to purchase the "Thwart" ability for their cleaver athletes. You could also hire your team mascot which serves as a CANCEL CARD token per game.

As you see, once you progress past scrimmage games the counters for cheap (yet very entertaining) card combos are greatly increased.

P.S. - The above are also very useful in stopping the annoying "Fumble/Lucky Bounce" card combo!
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Mike Beiter
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Great tips! I can definitely see that as teams get customized and with edge tokens etc. This combo can be mitigated.

Also, I think that knowing it is coming helps. First time players don't know what is in the deck, so having this combo hit them out of the blue can be a shocker.
 
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