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Subject: Apps and Boardgames [Poll] rss

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Jason King
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Apologies for what appears to be a duplicate post, but after reading through the current poll, I decided to try and put together something a little more targeted and impartial.

Please do not read the discussion below before voting.

Poll
1. What is your opinion on boardgames that require an application to play?
Strongly Dislike
Dislike
Neutral
Like
Strongly Like
2. What is your opinion on boardgames that have an optional application to enhance play or setup?
Strongly Dislike
Dislike
Neutral
Like
Strongly Like
      165 answers
Poll created by pilotneko


Looking forward to the discussion, thanks!
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Leo Zappa
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Yes, this is a good poll on the subject. I was able to zero in immediately on my position, which is simply that I detest (and won't buy) any game that requires an app, but am indifferent and would play (and possibly buy) any game that can optionally utilize an app. As soon as the publisher crosses that line from optional to mandatory, I'm out, as I see mandatory app games as little more than novelty items that will be unplayable at some point in the future when the app is no longer supported.
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Jason King
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Yeah, I feel very much the same way. I regularly use Dominion android apps to randomize setup. I've also had good experiences with the Codenames app. However, a required app just smacks of planned obsolescence to me. There are obviously exceptions though, and I recognize that other people have different viewpoints.

I tried to structure the poll so that it wouldn't be overwhelming, and so we could better understand the two main questions (Well, at least what I consider the two main questions).
 
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Jeff Woodman
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This is me perfectly, I am weary of any game that needs to have an app to function. I once had a cool multi effects pedal for my guitar that you plugged an ipad into, and then the manufacturer quit supporting it, and ipad changed their connector jack, and ios updated and you can't run the pedal app anymore unless its on a legacy ipad on a legacy ios...

So yeah, games that NEED an app, no thanks, I'll play with you but I won't buy it myself.

Games that us an app as an accessory to speed/bookeep/run overlord, love them. I actually picked up Descent because it has an overlord app now, but I know the game functions perfectly well regardless of if my ipad is charged or not.

So please, keep making the apps, just give me an analogue version with the gamebox.
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Michael Coniff
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I am neutral on both as the game itself has to be something that would captivate me. So really, it's all on a case by case basis. I like the idea of being able to play games with apps, and I tend to already play music from my phone to chrome cast when playing games, so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to jump on the app-wagon.

I think it would be pretty neat if there was an App (that you could chrome cast onto a TV) for TIME Stories, that had ambient music and would read items allowed as they were obtained. I dunno. We live in the twenty first century so board games integrating with technology is going to happen.
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Jason King
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WisdomForWizards wrote:
I think it would be pretty neat if there was an App (that you could chrome cast onto a TV) for TIME Stories, that had ambient music and would read items allowed as they were obtained. I dunno. We live in the twenty first century so board games integrating with technology is going to happen.


I haven't played TIME stories, but from what I've read that sounds like it could work. In that case though, it's still a method of augmenting the existing game. You aren't required to use it, and if for some reason your battery died or the app was no longer available, you'd still be able to play the game by itself.

For me, I view the required app as another game component to lose/damage. Obviously, I am going to take care of my games, but the unforeseen is just that. I buy games to play for years and years, so if I open an old game and realize I misplaced the rulebook, I'd be upset. Heck, this happened with Dark Tower for a while. If the tower component broke or you lost the guide, how were you ever going to play? It wasn't until the last few years that the tower component was emulated on pc/android/ios.

I waffle back and forth. Frankly, a boardgame that is entirely dependent on an app really isn't a boardgame; it's a computer game. I don't tend to play computationally heavy games, so maybe it's a moot point for me.
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August Larson
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I recently played Mansions of Madness 2e and enjoyed it so much! It was such a flawless and smooth experience that I wish more of my games used apps to control behind-the-scenes things. One of my biggest gripes with co-op games is having to control the game's turn. MoM2 instructed me perfectly on what happens and which characters to move while still keeping the majority of the game on the table. Now I don't really want to play another co-op that DOESN'T have an app.
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Bryan Thunkd
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desertfox2004 wrote:
Yes, this is a good poll on the subject.
Clear, unambiguous, without any inconsistencies in the answer formats... yes, it appears that nothing's been skutsched in this poll!
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Jason King
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Thunkd wrote:
desertfox2004 wrote:
Yes, this is a good poll on the subject.
Clear, unambiguous, without any inconsistencies in the answer formats... yes, it appears that nothing's been skutsched in this poll!


Thanks for the kudos, but I just want to be clear that I'm not out to slam skutsch. I wish BGG polls would link individual answers within a poll, so I could better slice/dice the data. I'll wait till we have at least 100 responses before I attempt to draw any conclusions.
 
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Michael Carter
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pilotneko wrote:
WisdomForWizards wrote:
I think it would be pretty neat if there was an App (that you could chrome cast onto a TV) for TIME Stories, that had ambient music and would read items allowed as they were obtained. I dunno. We live in the twenty first century so board games integrating with technology is going to happen.


I haven't played TIME stories, but from what I've read that sounds like it could work. In that case though, it's still a method of augmenting the existing game. You aren't required to use it, and if for some reason your battery died or the app was no longer available, you'd still be able to play the game by itself.

For me, I view the required app as another game component to lose/damage. Obviously, I am going to take care of my games, but the unforeseen is just that. I buy games to play for years and years, so if I open an old game and realize I misplaced the rulebook, I'd be upset. Heck, this happened with Dark Tower for a while. If the tower component broke or you lost the guide, how were you ever going to play? It wasn't until the last few years that the tower component was emulated on pc/android/ios.

I waffle back and forth. Frankly, a boardgame that is entirely dependent on an app really isn't a boardgame; it's a computer game. I don't tend to play computationally heavy games, so maybe it's a moot point for me.


I wouldn't call it a computer game either. It's a hybrid.
 
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Drew
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I am neutral towards games that require an app, but do enjoy games that have an app to help with book keeping.
 
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Mark McGee
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One reason I'm against games that have an optional app to help with bookkeeping or setup or whatever is that if the game is complicated enough that an app would provide any significant benefit, then the game isn't playing to the strengths of the medium. At that point it's too complex or too mathematical or too something for me. If it's going to really succeed at being a board game, in my view, it must fully embrace it's board-gameness, which means it's best when played with no app.

Games with apps are a different genre, and one that holds no appeal to me.
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Jason King
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meshnaster wrote:
One reason I'm against games that have an optional app to help with bookkeeping or setup or whatever is that if the game is complicated enough that an app would provide any significant benefit, then the game isn't playing to the strengths of the medium. At that point it's too complex or too mathematical or too something for me. If it's going to really succeed at being a board game, in my view, it must fully embrace it's board-gameness, which means it's best when played with no app.

Games with apps are a different genre, and one that holds no appeal to me.


This is an interesting viewpoint, and I think it speaks to the difference between what different gamers think is fun. Personally, I'm very much in the same camp as you when it comes to complexity. I can envision a scenario, however, where a tactical wargame could benefit from a bookkeeping app so you can focus on the overall picture. I think the line for me is that same game with all combat simulated through the app. At that point, I'd feel like I was playing a video game through a hole in a box. Of course, this might work thematically. After all, higher-echelon commanders work/plan in a remote environment.

Like I said, I waffle back and forth.
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Mark McGee
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pilotneko wrote:
meshnaster wrote:
One reason I'm against games that have an optional app to help with bookkeeping or setup or whatever is that if the game is complicated enough that an app would provide any significant benefit, then the game isn't playing to the strengths of the medium. At that point it's too complex or too mathematical or too something for me. If it's going to really succeed at being a board game, in my view, it must fully embrace it's board-gameness, which means it's best when played with no app.

Games with apps are a different genre, and one that holds no appeal to me.


This is an interesting viewpoint, and I think it speaks to the difference between what different gamers think is fun. Personally, I'm very much in the same camp as you when it comes to complexity. I can envision a scenario, however, where a tactical wargame could benefit from a bookkeeping app so you can focus on the overall picture. I think the line for me is that same game with all combat simulated through the app. At that point, I'd feel like I was playing a video game through a hole in a box. Of course, this might work thematically. After all, higher-echelon commanders work/plan in a remote environment.

Like I said, I waffle back and forth.


I definitely think there are games that would be better with apps. I just also happen to believe they'd be better off as apps. Fiddliness is a big turnoff for me.

I'm not a wargamer, and I am unable to see things from that perspective, but I think that's a good example of a game that would benefit from an app.
 
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James Lautermilch
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Mansion's of Madness is a perfect example of what app's can do for an already very good game and I applaud the effort. Also, since I have never found a game that was too complicated for my tastes an app to improve bookkeeping is a plus. But overall I am neutral on apps. I figure if it's a terrible game an app is not going to save it and if it's a great game then it's a great game period.
 
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CARL SKUTSCH
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pilotneko wrote:
Thunkd wrote:
desertfox2004 wrote:
Yes, this is a good poll on the subject.
Clear, unambiguous, without any inconsistencies in the answer formats... yes, it appears that nothing's been skutsched in this poll!


Thanks for the kudos, but I just want to be clear that I'm not out to slam skutsch. I wish BGG polls would link individual answers within a poll, so I could better slice/dice the data. I'll wait till we have at least 100 responses before I attempt to draw any conclusions.

I am unslammed. Nice poll, no disrespect felt.
 
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Denmark
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I would love more opt app's for deck heavy games like EH & SoB.
Time spendt on bookkeeping/shuffling ect can be greatly reduced by apps.
I would likely have kept AH, if it had an bookkeeping/card randomizer app.
 
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Wendell
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I've never encountered such a game. Suspect I wouldn't like it, though.
 
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Jason King
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All right, I ran a quick analysis of the results and wanted to share my limited findings. Note that I have mapped the answers to [-2, -1, 0, 1, 2], with negative values representing dislike.

What is your opinion on boardgames that require an application to play?
Mean score: -0.50 (Dislike to Neutral)
Standard Deviation: 1.21

What is your opinion on boardgames that have an optional application to enhance play or setup?
Mean score: 0.47 (Neutral to Like)
Standard Deviation: 0.98

Although poll results are limited (133 responses as of this post), I feel fairly confident that sentiment towards required apps is mild dislike/indifference, and the sentiment towards optional apps is mild like/indifference. Please note that results for a larger group may vary, as this sample is small even within our enthusiast group.
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Davey Boy
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FFS
 
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Jason King
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Kossoff wrote:
FFS


For Fun's Sake?
 
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REQUIRED:
I said "like". I've tried X-Com and it was fun!

That said, this selection shouldn't be interpreted as being something mutually between app required vs. traditional bg. I won't actively seek out bg that require apps (then again, I won't actively buy ANY bg either unless they're at least 50% off on account that getting new games + my existing ones is a bit hard pressed). I also won't shun non-app-required bg either.



OPTIONAL:
I said "strongly like"

I have and other played a variety of games that don't require an app to play it, but have found that they were helpful. Furthermore, to shun them because an app made things easier would be folly, as many of these great games would now be "off limits"...

Dominion - Randomizer app. Somebody uses this with the following benefits...
1) not having to carry around 180 randomizer cards (probably more since he expressed interest in upcoming expansions, which have been released since then)
2) not having to shuffle 180 cards

Alchemist - not having to consult charts really feels like actual work. The app makes it simple and smooth

Battlestar Galactica - Loyalty app to determine Loyalty deck makeup. I still have this memorized, but it couldn't hurt to double check. Especially since messing this up can be catastrophic!


These all use the same, generic app...
Ghost Stories - Randomizers for the village setup, and player colors + powers
Race For The Galaxy, arc #1 - randomizer for the First and Most Goals
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