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Band of Brothers: Screaming Eagles» Forums » Rules

Subject: Guns and Final Op Fire rss

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Rusty McFisticuffs
United States
Arcata
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Two questions about Guns and Final Op Fire which came up in tonight's horribly brutal Scenario 5:

1. Guns can or can't rotate to take Final Op Fire against Infantry moving into an adjacent hex outside of the Gun's firing arc? 20.7 says "They may Final Op Fire against Infantry only if the Infantry moves into an adjacent hex within the Gun/Vehicle's firing arc," which sounds pretty clear that they can't rotate to take Final Op Fire, but this paragraph in 20.4 confused us:

Quote:
A special case occurs when a Gun or Vehicle attempts to Op Fire or Final Op Fire. If the firing Vehicle attempts to turn within its hex in order to fire and it fails its Prof Check, then it is returned to its previous placement within the hex (it is not allowed to turn to face the target). This special case applies only to Op Fire and Final Op Fire. A Gun or Vehicle turning within its hex other than Op Fire still must take a Prof Check before firing, but will retain its new facing even if it fails that Prof Check.

My opponent thought that meant that if Infantry steps adjacent, and the Gun attempts to rotate but fails its Prof Check, it can't rotate, and so can't take Final Op Fire because the Infantry isn't in its firing arc.

2. We had a Gun marked Used, and Infantry which began their activation adjacent to it, in its firing arc. They moved into melee with the gun; because the first hex of their movement was into melee, Op Fire could be taken in the hex they were leaving instead of entering (9.0 paragraph 3). But, could the Gun take Final Op Fire at them? A literal reading of that same 20.7 "they may Final Op Fire against Infantry only if..." sentence says no (since they didn't just move into an adjacent hex within the Gun's firing arc); but, was that the intent of that rule?

...

(We had one kind of irritating thing happen--well, irritating to me, although my opponent loved it--my squad had eliminated one of his 88s and taken over the foxholes which were adjacent to his next Gun. The next turn, somehow the Gun became Used, so it couldn't possibly fire at my Infantry; they were laying in the foxholes, catching their breath. Not fully thinking, I ran one of my other squads into the same hex--and the Gun passed its Final Op Fire Prof Check and fired into the hex, eliminating the moving squad--fair enough--and casualty-reducing the squad it couldn't even fire at before. "What the heck is that supposed to represent?" I groused. My opponent thought it was perfectly reasonable, though.)
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Jim Krohn
United States
New York
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Quote:
1. Guns can or can't rotate to take Final Op Fire against Infantry moving into an adjacent hex outside of the Gun's firing arc?


Can't

Quote:
20.7 says "They may Final Op Fire against Infantry only if the Infantry moves into an adjacent hex within the Gun/Vehicle's firing arc," which sounds pretty clear that they can't rotate to take Final Op Fire, but this paragraph in 20.4 confused us:

Quote:
A special case occurs when a Gun or Vehicle attempts to Op Fire or Final Op Fire. If the firing Vehicle attempts to turn within its hex in order to fire and it fails its Prof Check, then it is returned to its previous placement within the hex (it is not allowed to turn to face the target). This special case applies only to Op Fire and Final Op Fire. A Gun or Vehicle turning within its hex other than Op Fire still must take a Prof Check before firing, but will retain its new facing even if it fails that Prof Check.


Of course the Gun or Vehicle can attempt to turn and shoot at any target (including Infantry) during Op Fire. It also can attempt to turn and shoot at Vehicles during Final Op Fire.

Hopefully it will help you understand it if I give you the theory behind the rules:

1. Vehicles/guns are allowed to turn to final op fire at vehicles to discourage the unrealistic behavior of driving tanks up behind and right next to Used Vehicles.

2. Vehicles/guns are NOT allowed to turn to final op fire at infantry in order to encourage infantry to realistically close assault vehicles form the side and behind and not the front.

Quote:
2. We had a Gun marked Used, and Infantry which began their activation adjacent to it, in its firing arc. They moved into melee with the gun; because the first hex of their movement was into melee, Op Fire could be taken in the hex they were leaving instead of entering (9.0 paragraph 3). But, could the Gun take Final Op Fire at them? A literal reading of that same 20.7 "they may Final Op Fire against Infantry only if..." sentence says no (since they didn't just move into an adjacent hex within the Gun's firing arc); but, was that the intent of that rule?


Yes, it could final Op Fire because it was in the firing arc. A unit moving directly into melee at the start of its move is treated as if it just entered that hex.

Quote:
(We had one kind of irritating thing happen--well, irritating to me, although my opponent loved it--my squad had eliminated one of his 88s and taken over the foxholes which were adjacent to his next Gun. The next turn, somehow the Gun became Used, so it couldn't possibly fire at my Infantry; they were laying in the foxholes, catching their breath. Not fully thinking, I ran one of my other squads into the same hex--and the Gun passed its Final Op Fire Prof Check and fired into the hex, eliminating the moving squad--fair enough--and casualty-reducing the squad it couldn't even fire at before. "What the heck is that supposed to represent?" I groused. My opponent thought it was perfectly reasonable, though.)


If the Gun was facing the foxholes, that was legal. If it wasn't facing the hex with the charging squad, it would not be able to turn to final op fire at it.

This is part of the unlimited nature of Final Op Fire. What it represents is how hard it is to charge and engagle in melee a squad (which all had machine guns) or the front of a gun (for example) without suppressing them first. Even had you picked up your adjacent squad first and tried to melee the squad, if it was within the firing arc of the Gun, the Gun would have been allowed to Final Op Fire.

What you should have done was attack the used gun from the side or, if that was not possible, use your adjacent squad to suppress the gun and charge with the other squad.

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Aswin Agastya
Indonesia
Bekasi
Jawa Barat
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I think part of the confusion is, while there's a Final Op Fire section for guns/vehicles, there's no section for normal Op Fire for guns/vehicles. They're just mentioned in the "special case" paragraph.
 
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