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Subject: Some rules clarification needed please rss

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Hello guys, it seems to me like every time we play eclipse someone comes up with a new strategy creating new rules questions, so these are the last ones that occured:

1. If 2 player have diplomatic realtionship and form an alliance after that. Can they later break their diplomatic relationship for more reputation tiles or will this automatically also result in their alliance disbanding?

2. If you have used all your influence discs and win a fight, where from do you take an influence disc to populate/claim the sector? Is it possible that you CANNOT claim it, due to that you used all your influence discs? Or can you use one of your used influence discs and if so, whats the difference to prior rounds where u had to use unused influence discs? o0

3. If an enemy ship enter one of your sectors without starbase/ships in it. Can you use influence action to remove and give up that sector, also technically it is under siege and awaiting combat round?

4. Missiles. Do missiles also follow initiative order if 2 players are attacking each other with missiles? If one has higher initiative, do his missiles also fire first? If they have the same initiative does the defender fire first?

5. Shapers of Dorado: Can they use time warp special skill to upgrade something they didn't have researched and then later get the minus points on purpose? I hope not xD

6. If 2 mates of the same alliance attack another player. How is it determined how many reputation tiles each one draws? If only one guy did damage, does he get all the tiles? If they both did damage, is it split or both get equal amount?

7. Do you get a reputationtile when you concuered a hostile sector without combat or wihtout destroying hostile ships because they fled?

Thanks for all answers!
 
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Chris K.
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Laoakai wrote:
Hello guys, it seems to me like every time we play eclipse someone comes up with a new strategy creating new rules questions, so these are the last ones that occured:

1. If 2 player have diplomatic realtionship and form an alliance after that. Can they later break their diplomatic relationship for more reputation tiles or will this automatically also result in their alliance disbanding?



I don't play with Alliance rules, so no idea.

Laoakai wrote:


2. If you have used all your influence discs and win a fight, where from do you take an influence disc to populate/claim the sector? Is it possible that you CANNOT claim it, due to that you used all your influence discs? Or can you use one of your used influence discs and if so, whats the difference to prior rounds where u had to use unused influence discs? o0


If you have no discs to spare or cannot afford them, then it is possible that you win the battle, then successfully remove the opponents population which causes his disc to be removed and then it stays empty.

Do note though that first ALL bombardments are resolved and hence ALL discs are returned before you get to place any, so you may get some disc back because you also loose a system to an opponent.

You can not voluntarily use any of the discs used on any other hex and you cannot use any of the discs you used for actions. You also cannot use any spare discs that may still be "out" due to unresearched technologies.


Laoakai wrote:

3. If an enemy ship enter one of your sectors without starbase/ships in it. Can you use influence action to remove and give up that sector, also technically it is under siege and awaiting combat round?



Yes, you can give up that sector with an influence action completely regardless of what ships are there or not. However while enemy ships are there you are unable to take control (place a disc) INTO that system.

I fail to see why you think it is a good idea to do so, though. What would you try to achieve by it?

Laoakai wrote:



4. Missiles. Do missiles also follow initiative order if 2 players are attacking each other with missiles? If one has higher initiative, do his missiles also fire first? If they have the same initiative does the defender fire first?



Yes to all

Laoakai wrote:



5. Shapers of Dorado: Can they use time warp special skill to upgrade something they didn't have researched and then later get the minus points on purpose? I hope not xD



Yes they can. And they won't loose the upgrades either. However the VP penalty (in addition to not getting VP for completing it) is a pretty harsh penalty.

Laoakai wrote:


6. If 2 mates of the same alliance attack another player. How is it determined how many reputation tiles each one draws? If only one guy did damage, does he get all the tiles? If they both did damage, is it split or both get equal amount?



I don't play with Alliance rules, so no idea.

Laoakai wrote:

7. Do you get a reputationtile when you concuered a hostile sector without combat or wihtout destroying hostile ships because they fled?


No Combat, no tiles. Destroying population is no combat in this regard.

If however there was a combat and all the opponents fled before you managed to take one down you still get the one tile for participating in a combat and not fleeing.

Laoakai wrote:

Thanks for all answers!



Welcome.
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Laoakai wrote:
1. If 2 player have diplomatic realtionship and form an alliance after that. Can they later break their diplomatic relationship for more reputation tiles or will this automatically also result in their alliance disbanding?


You break diplomatic relations by entering the other player's owned hex or enter a hex where they have a ship, causing an attack. An alliance permits you to do these two things, so you cannot break a diplomatic relation with someone you're in an alliance with - the rulebook does not say you can simply shout "No more diplomacy!" and end the relationship.

Laoakai wrote:
6. If 2 mates of the same alliance attack another player. How is it determined how many reputation tiles each one draws? If only one guy did damage, does he get all the tiles? If they both did damage, is it split or both get equal amount?


Rulebook page 10 - all Allied players will draw Reputation Tiles for the battle and for the Ships they personally destroyed. It has nothing to do with damage, unless that damage destroys a ship.

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ATT_Turan wrote:


Rulebook page 10 - all Allied players will draw Reputation Tiles for the battle and for the Ships they personally destroyed. It has nothing to do with damage, unless that damage destroys a ship.



Okay, but what if two allianced attacker both have ships with same initiative and one ship does 2 damage, and then the other player does 2 damage and that destroys the hostile ship. Is he now the only one getting the reputation tiles for the destroyed ship, because he personally rolled the destroying hit, or does the other allied player also get reputation tiles because he did cause damage on the ship that was later destroyed?

chrisdk wrote:


Yes, you can give up that sector with an influence action completely regardless of what ships are there or not. However while enemy ships are there you are unable to take control (place a disc) INTO that system.

I fail to see why you think it is a good idea to do so, though. What would you try to achieve by it?


For example if uwant to move ships to an attacked sector of yours worth 3 VP, but you are in lack of enough unused influence discs, you can use influence action to give up two 1 VP sectors and use those influence discs for move actions
 
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Peter O
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3). In some cases you reach an agreement with another player to give up a hex. In that case you either need to remove using an influence action, or preferably they destroy your population for you. This is better as you save an action and the population cubes go to graveyard instead of directly to the track giving you an extra round of production.
 
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Chris K.
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Quote:

chrisdk wrote:


Yes, you can give up that sector with an influence action completely regardless of what ships are there or not. However while enemy ships are there you are unable to take control (place a disc) INTO that system.

I fail to see why you think it is a good idea to do so, though. What would you try to achieve by it?


For example if uwant to move ships to an attacked sector of yours worth 3 VP, but you are in lack of enough unused influence discs, you can use influence action to give up two 1 VP sectors and use those influence discs for move actions


Oh .. yeah, okay. When you are giving up two systems it makes sense. I got a bit confused by thinking of only giving up one system in your question. Thanks for clarifying.

Also, very rarely, it may be worth it for some stalling.
 
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Radosław Michalak
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Quote:
6. If 2 mates of the same alliance attack another player. How is it determined how many reputation tiles each one draws? If only one guy did damage, does he get all the tiles? If they both did damage, is it split or both get equal amount?

As always: 1 + bonus for destroyed ships, max 5 per player.
Note that even when 2 players fight on the same side in alliance and have the same initiative, they still operate in an order of entering the hex.
So always only one player rolls at the same time.
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Laoakai wrote:
ATT_Turan wrote:


Rulebook page 10 - all Allied players will draw Reputation Tiles for the battle and for the Ships they personally destroyed. It has nothing to do with damage, unless that damage destroys a ship.



Okay, but what if two allianced attacker both have ships with same initiative and one ship does 2 damage, and then the other player does 2 damage and that destroys the hostile ship. Is he now the only one getting the reputation tiles for the destroyed ship, because he personally rolled the destroying hit, or does the other allied player also get reputation tiles because he did cause damage on the ship that was later destroyed?


I'm sorry, but I don't understand what point is causing you confusion. Damage has nothing to do with it, whoever destroys the ship gets tiles.
 
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Davy Ashleydale
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ATT_Turan wrote:
Laoakai wrote:
ATT_Turan wrote:


Rulebook page 10 - all Allied players will draw Reputation Tiles for the battle and for the Ships they personally destroyed. It has nothing to do with damage, unless that damage destroys a ship.



Okay, but what if two allianced attacker both have ships with same initiative and one ship does 2 damage, and then the other player does 2 damage and that destroys the hostile ship. Is he now the only one getting the reputation tiles for the destroyed ship, because he personally rolled the destroying hit, or does the other allied player also get reputation tiles because he did cause damage on the ship that was later destroyed?


I'm sorry, but I don't understand what point is causing you confusion. Damage has nothing to do with it, whoever destroys the ship gets tiles.


I think he's saying that it's not really fair if one person does most of the damage and then someone else just finishes it off by doing 1 point of damage, and that person gets reputation tiles and the person that did most of the damage gets none. Especially if they are in an Alliance and supposedly working together.
 
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randomlife wrote:
ATT_Turan wrote:
Laoakai wrote:
ATT_Turan wrote:


Rulebook page 10 - all Allied players will draw Reputation Tiles for the battle and for the Ships they personally destroyed. It has nothing to do with damage, unless that damage destroys a ship.



Okay, but what if two allianced attacker both have ships with same initiative and one ship does 2 damage, and then the other player does 2 damage and that destroys the hostile ship. Is he now the only one getting the reputation tiles for the destroyed ship, because he personally rolled the destroying hit, or does the other allied player also get reputation tiles because he did cause damage on the ship that was later destroyed?


I'm sorry, but I don't understand what point is causing you confusion. Damage has nothing to do with it, whoever destroys the ship gets tiles.


I think he's saying that it's not really fair if one person does most of the damage and then someone else just finishes it off by doing 1 point of damage, and that person gets reputation tiles and the person that did most of the damage gets none. Especially if they are in an Alliance and supposedly working together.


The question was not posed about us imposing opinions of fairness, it was about the rules of the game If he them wants to start formulating house rules for fairness, that's fine, but his question seemed to me to be still about not understanding the rule as written.
 
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Davy Ashleydale
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Oh, I agree, but I think it was the perceived unfairness which cause him to question the rule.
 
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If the allied ships have the same initiative, then the allied players get to decide their firing order. So if the allied players want to make it fair, they can decide the firing order (or initially target a different ship instead of the one they could destroy) to make it more likely for one player or the other to destroy a particular ship.

...Though actually, after writing that, I'm not 100% sure if allied players are allowed to do that. I don't play with alliances, so it hasn't come up for me before. I assume it does since both allied players have the same defender or attacker status when compared to the enemy, but in this case you could break that tie with hex entry order (or influence disc). For now I'd say they can make the choice, which would allow them to try to distribute reputation tiles by controlling turn order.


I guess that raises another question for me. With initiative ties for a single player, that player can decide which ships fire first. Does that happen every time that initiative value comes up, or is the order in repeated engagement rounds set by the choice in the first round? I'd guess the choice can be made each engagement round. This question shouldn't matter much most of the time, but it could allow some small strategic choices in some edge cases.
 
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Gregg Speers
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Refer to the FAQ for Rise of the Ancients https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/876525/rise-ancients-of... as it relates to combat with 2 or more members of an alliance.
 
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