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Jäger und Späher» Forums » Rules

Subject: Finishing the game/ Getting rid of useless cards rss

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Till Caspari
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Hi there!

After playing several games of "Jäger + Späher" last afternoon, special questions occurred, which we couldn´t solve properly out of the rules:

1) Situation: Player A has reached 22 VPs and has just 3 Hunger-Tokens - so he is basically able to pass the "barrier" between VP 23 and 24 and finish the game.
In his actual move he builds the item "Holzrad" (Wooden Wheel) by collecting two logs with some of his tribesmen on appropriate Wilderness-Cards - which gives him 2 additional VPs plus a new Hunger-Token.
Question(s): Is Player A now moving his marker to VP 24 first (thus finishing the game at that very moment) and gaining the extra Hunger-Token (his fourth one) afterwards - which doesn´t matter any more, because game ist over? Or is he gaining the 2 VPs and the extra Hunger-Token at the same time - which gives him his fourth Hunger-Token before passing the "barrier" between VP 23 and 24 and therefore has to stop at VP 23 - and not finishing the game? At that point: It would be nice to get some explicit advice, how to handle the item-cards, specially concerning the chronological order of gained rewards.

2) By reading quite a lot of posts in this forum I recognized, that one can play a character-card even when it´s not possible to fulfill all of it´s given intructions. Actually, that´s the way we played the game so far, even when the rule-book doesn´t say a thing about this rather important topic...!
Question(s): Can you play a character-card even when one cannot fulfill any of it´s given instructons at all - that is: Yout just discard it in a way as a regular move?
Example: One still holds the card "Nachwuchs" (because he picked it up to reach another card behind it), but has already built his fifth tribesmen. So the card is utterly useless, none of their instructions can be fulfilled. Is it still possible to play the card regularly? Or has the player to keep the card til the end of the game?
Another point in this context: There is the character-card "Feuerwächterin" - one of their instructions says: "Discard 1 Character in the (general) display". Is the "Feuerwächterin" probably the only proper way to get rid of useless character-cards?

Hopefully I could explain my points in an appropriate way, even when it makes the post a little to detailed... Actually I don´t want to start a big discussion at that point and so, I would appreciate very much, if the author, Mr. Hecht, himself would answer my questions. Thanks a lot.

P.S. The presentation of the rules really could be a little bit better - maybe a kind of "relaunch" would be a good idea... But nevertheless: The game itself is great, still makes a lot of fun and has quite a depth for just a kind of card-game!

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Murr Rockstroh
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With regards to question 1, I'd say your opponent was stuck at 23 VP since they gained a 4th hunger token as they gained the VP's. That's how we would play it.

With regard to question 2, I don't know, but I suppose you could play a card that was useless, and effectively skip a turn. I would probably play up to the point I had only that card in my hand though, and then do a Sunset and just take the hunger tile for the card in hand rather than skip a whole turn.

Or as you pointed out, use the one card that lets you get rid of a card you no longer want or need.
 
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Scott Ross Spurgeon
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Great game --


My paste-ups for the Feuerwachterin character card state "Place 1 character in the display". I took this to mean - take a hand card, in addition to the Feuerwachterin card itself, and place them (2 cards now)into the display (from your hand on a single turn). This mechanic allows a player to be rid of two cards, thus two victory points saved in the Sunset scoring phase.

If you play a character card and choose not to use its action(s), you loose the value of the turn itself (possible waste). In this game, one turn is usually the difference in the game......

The Feuerwachterin card gives a second possible choice "Place every tribesman on any locations". The wording here makes my eyes go cross. I have played this choice as - place as many tribesman onto any location(s) - and that would be from the "Sunset scoring card/Tribal Village card" to any legal location (only from the TB card).

 
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Till Caspari
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To 1: Yes, that´s one possibility.
But: The German rulebook says at that point (playing item-cards): You gain the VPs and mark them on the "Siegpunktleiste" (how you call that in English?) immediately (!) after playing the item-card. So the relevant question is: Is there a chronological order in handling the results after playing the "Wooden Wheel" - first: VPs, second: hunger-token (exactly like in a Sunset!) - or: do the results happen synchronously? In the first case, it´s possible to pass the 23/24- barrier and finish the game. (> Similiarly, when you pass the 23/24-barrier after scoring a Sunset, reaching VP 24 or beyond. In that case you finish the game immediately at that point. And therefore the collection of new hunger-tokens, usually the second step of a Sunset, are not happening any more - because game is already over. As far as I know, the author answered an appopriate question somewhere in a thread this way.) But if the results of a item-card happen synchronously, the player is stuck an VP 23.


To 2: True - you loose a turn by just discarding an useless character-card. On the other hand: If you keep it during a Sunset, you loose a VP when scoring your tribesmen AND gain a hunger-token. Near the end of the game, this could be quite critical. But this is a question of tactics or strategy. My question is pointing in another direction: The German rulebook states: When you play a character card, you execute all their instructions top down. So: Is it "legal" (concernig the rules of the game) to play a character-card without executing any instructions at all (for example because it´s not possible at this situation of the game)? Or do I have to keep this card in hand then?

 
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Dok Indigo
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Spurge wrote:
I have played this choice as - place as many tribesman onto any location(s) - and that would be from the "Sunset scoring card/Tribal Village card" to any legal location (only from the TB card).



Why only from the TB card? And what is a TB card?
 
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Dok Indigo
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In this thread called Order of item effects Gerhard Hecht specifies that item cards are handled from left to right.
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Till Caspari
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Spurge:

Your first point: I agree - this is my understanding of that instruction too. And this would be a real "legal" way, to get rid of useless character-cards - at that point the only one I see so far. Problem: The special character-cards are drawn randomly. So you cannot be sure, wether the Feuerwächterin is in play.

Your second point: I don´t wanna play a character-card and CHOOSE not to use its action(s). My point is: I have a character-card in my hand and it´s not possible to use its action(s), because of a certain situation in game. For example: I have a character-card "Nachwuchs" in my hand, but all my five tribesmen are already in play - so "Nachwuchs" ist useless. If I keep it during a Sunset, I´m scoring minus. So maybe I want to get rid of it.

Your third point: Now that you´ve stated it, MY eyes go cross too. My spontaneous understanding of that instruction was: "You can move All your tribesmen in play to Any location" - on the contrary to "Place two tribesmen on a wilderness" or something similar like that - but of course within the limits of the basic rule, that only three tribesmen can sit on one location at the same time (skipping the "Holy Places" as a special case...). But it´s true: One could understand this instruction as well in a way, that one can place more than three tribesmen on any location in the game. Only I don´t agree, that this movements are only possible from the "Sunset/Tribal Village Card". As far as I understand, it´s "legal" to move tribesmen from every (open) location to every other (open) location. The one point is, that you only can get resources, when you move tribesmen from a location directly back to your "homebase".

But all that brings me back to another point: From my sight, there is much too much space for interpretation and personal understanding! For me gamerules have to bring things to the point as precisely as possible, ideally in an didactical, structured way. As it seems, the main concern of the publisher Kosmos was rather to have a short rulebook with only a few pages. And that´s the reason, why I would appreciate very much, if the author itself could straighten at least some things out.


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Till Caspari
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Hexendoktor wrote:

In this thread called Order of item effects Gerhard Hecht specifies that item cards are handled from left to right.


Oh, thank you! I couldn´t find this thread yet. Now, at least one question is answered - great!
 
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Scott Ross Spurgeon
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typing error "TB" meant as "TV" Tribal Village card
 
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