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Subject: major differences between ECGs and TCGs rss

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Carl Frodge
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I'm writing an article comparing ECGs to TCGs, and I wanted to get some ideas on the differences.

I've already talked about how the distribution models are different, so I'm looking for other differences now, things like how the secondary market doesn't exist for ECGs.

 
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Stephen Rochelle
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As general categories, I'm not sure there is any significant difference otherwise. One class operates with a quasi-random purchasing method, the other is deterministic. Everything else (such as the lack of secondary market for ECGs) falls out of that distinction.

Editing to add, based on your comments in the other TCG/ECG thread: it's not the case that ECGs have no secondary market. I resold my A:NR cards just fine, and for a percentage of purchase cost that maps pretty well to any of the TCG stuff I've seen outside of "here's a really valuable rare". What ECG's don't typically have is a secondary market for individual cards. But used games? Just as valid as for any other game.
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Bryan Carpenter
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agentkuo wrote:
I'm writing an article comparing ECGs to TCGs, and I wanted to get some ideas on the differences.

I've already talked about how the distribution models are different, so I'm looking for other differences now, things like how the secondary market doesn't exist for ECGs.



ECG = Electrocardiogram?

Not an acronym I've come across regarding games. What's it stand for?
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Josh
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Card design and bakance philosophies are very different as well. Common/uncommon/rare deliniations generally lends themselves to power tiers. Fixed distribution models tend to be more focused on specific utility value and making players choose what bakance they wish to make, tsiloring what to 'give up' to 'get' in terms of card effects. TCGs to some extend combine this with the pursuit of the more powerful cards which simply offer more value.

Actual deck construction designs tend to be different as well. TCGs generally rely on possession as a limiter, combined with a broad max # of copies of cards. In ECGs you tend to find thematic factions which in some way restrict which cards may be included together in what decks, which helps go hand in hand with the point above.

Another difference is resource distribution methods. For whatever reason TCGs, even newer ones still tend to hinge resource allocation on a subset of cards (lands etc) that must be inclided in the deck and are subject to randomization and draw. ECGs generally operste on a baseline resource curve of some type. The cirse can be accelerated, but even if it isn't it exists as a more predictable resource pool.

That's just a few points. Csn throw a PM if you want clsrification.
 
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Karl
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Expandable Card Game?

LCG is trademarked by FFG I think...
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Matt Brown
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There is a secondary market for Netrunner, but it is incredibly small. I can't imagine there is much outside of it.
 
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Adelin Dumitru
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So ECG, LCG, TCG, CCG...How many of them are out there? Which games fit into each category?
 
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Josh
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AdelinDumitru wrote:
So ECG, LCG, TCG, CCG...How many of them are out there? Which games fit into each category?


ECG/LCG are basically lissencing differences. FFG does LCGs. Anyone else ECGs.

TCG/CCG is more chronological. What were CCGs are now reffered to as TCGs. Some of us oldies still call them ccgs though. As to the reason for the change, marketing mostly.
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Bwian, just
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Are you comparing to TCGs in general, or just Magic? In the other thread, you were talking about how TCGs tended to have lots of easy-to-find players. But I have not found that to be the case for most TCGs. Because the de facto cost is higher for TCGs, any TCG that doesn't maintain a robust player base quickly dies on the vine. ECGs have a lower price point, which makes it easier to keep up if the player base goes through a dry spell.
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Carl
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agentkuo wrote:
I've already talked about how the distribution models are different, so I'm looking for other differences now, things like how the secondary market doesn't exist for ECGs.


CCGs seem to have a much larger commitment to ownership as a play requirement than ECGs. I'm a huge fan of Netrunner, and I'm happy to share my cards with people I play with, if they haven't already bought a particular expansion that I happen to have. The MtG players I've met, however, seem much more closed about sharing cards -- which is understandable, since your commitment to heavy buying can so directly shape the competitive level of your deck. And for some, I think that collecting is actually an active part of the fun.

This fundamental difference in the accessibility of all the cards in the pool not only shapes those social and demographic elements, but also seems to shape the game's strategic meta and design. The strength of individual card's powers aren't tied to any rarity in the ECGs.




 
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Chuck Harrison
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Shadrach wrote:
AdelinDumitru wrote:
So ECG, LCG, TCG, CCG...How many of them are out there? Which games fit into each category?


ECG/LCG are basically lissencing differences. FFG does LCGs. Anyone else ECGs.

TCG/CCG is more chronological. What were CCGs are now reffered to as TCGs. Some of us oldies still call them ccgs though. As to the reason for the change, marketing mostly.

I'm fairly sure the TCG/CCG difference was originally the same as the LCG/ECG difference today. The games from WOTC were TCGs, everything else was a CCG. Magic, Jyhad, and Netrunner were referred to as TCGs back in the beginning, and Wizard's 1995 patent was for "Trading card game method of play".
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The collectible aspect of TCGs influence the availability of the most powerful cards, therefore empowering the richest of the players, those who can afford playing four copies of a $10 to $200 card, whereas ECGs/LCGs give you everything in the expansion for a fixed price.

This makes the competitive aspect of the latter more balanced, but also makes these games mostly more accessible.

Design-wise, TCGs have to make rarer cards more powerful, and an easy way to do that is to make the lower rarity cards simply bad, nigh unplayable. It can also lead to more powerful cards having more complex abilities, whereas an ECG would theoretically only have playable cards of varying complexity.

TCGs also have, most of the time, premium cards to help sell their random boosters. These often feature a foil finish that you usually cannot find in more traditional card games, and are not featured in ECG. The same is true for promotional artwork and full art cards.

A very neat aspect of M:tG is the limited formats its random nature allows. Crack a few packs and you can play draft and sealed, which is not always possible with other games. What's more, since it releases expansions on a regular basis, Magic can vary its limited format very often, and can also afford to reprint cards within a new set, while ECG player would probably not enjoy having to pay for a reprint of cards already available (mentioning this as an Ascension player who doesn't like that some cards are reprinted in newer sets.)

Sure, you can draft and play seal with an ECG, but can it really get as random as Magic? On the other hand, you don't have to buy new cards each time you want to play a draft. Or to build a Cube, which requires a lot of time and money.

I hope this helps.
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Bwian, just
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Razoupaf wrote:
Sure, you can draft and play seal with an ECG, but can it really get as random as Magic?


Actually, sealed is much better when packs aren't random. WotC puts a great deal of work into keeping distributions flat enough that deck construction is more important that whether someone draws a single synergistic pack. Truly random packs contain too many streaks to "feel" random.

I haven't played draft, but I believe some of the same logic applies. WotC certainly tests in that format.

(I'm not disputing that sealed play will be better in a well-designed TCG. Just discussing the reason why. )

Razoupaf wrote:
Or to build a Cube, which requires a lot of time and money.


I've also never played with a Cube, so I may be missing a crucial detail. But it has always sounded to me like someone's LCG set would provide a good basis for one.
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Josh
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Bwian wrote:
Razoupaf wrote:
Sure, you can draft and play seal with an ECG, but can it really get as random as Magic?


Actually, sealed is much better when packs aren't random. WotC puts a great deal of work into keeping distributions flat enough that deck construction is more important that whether someone draws a single synergistic pack. Truly random packs contain too many streaks to "feel" random.

I haven't played draft, but I believe some of the same logic applies. WotC certainly tests in that format.

(I'm not disputing that sealed play will be better in a well-designed TCG. Just discussing the reason why. )

Razoupaf wrote:
Or to build a Cube, which requires a lot of time and money.


I've also never played with a Cube, so I may be missing a crucial detail. But it has always sounded to me like someone's LCG set would provide a good basis for one.


Cube requires either a dose of base sets or some proxies, both of which are viable. The 'base' cards given to each player pre draft ammount to a core per player. That's in netrunmer at least.
 
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