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Subject: US-50 Perpetual Ship Math Trade Beta rss

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Ben Stephenson
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This trade will be different than other math trades you've participated in. We've been running tests with it for a couple months now, it's an evolving idea and your participation and feedback are critical in improving it further. You can view the listings without having to participate if you're only curious.

If you don't know what a math trade is, please check out the math trade wiki on BGG .

If this is your first time using abecorn you can use the quick start to participate or view the whole wiki at https://abecorn.wikispaces.com

Basics:
-Users want, post items, and fill out their trade matrix just like before
-Every [3] days the trade results for all listings will automatically run.
-All of the trade loops will be split up into individual trade approval spaces. You will be notified via geekmail and email if you have pending trades.
-Users will have a 3 days to approve or reject their trade(s).
-If everyone approves a geekmessage will be sent out. Those traded items will be removed from the trade listings. Results from those trades will automatically be posted at https://www.boardgamegeek.com/guild/2679
-If anyone rejects, the trade will end and all items will be put back for trade. Not approving or rejecting a trade is considered rejecting the trade.
-For trades that are approved, the items that are given and received are removed from your matrix.
-After a trade cycle (3 days currently) is complete all of your untraded items and rejected trade items are still in queue to be traded. Your trade matrix is still filled out for those entries.

Further details to the process can be read at Perpetual Trade



We've got a feedback roadmap participants have been helping add to. Please feel free to suggest more.


Trademax 1.4 is being run with seed 12345, iterations 100

Please ask questions, make complaints, or otherwise in this discussion space or feel free to email me at info@abecorn.com
 
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Ben Stephenson
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Re: US-50 [Run 2] Perpetual Ship Math Trade Beta
Cash/Gift Cards/Geek Gold ARE acceptable.

NOTE: A Math Trader who accepts a cash value trade (either in the form of GC or actual cash) is conducting a direct sale through BGG and is subject to the associated commission fee (3%) required by the BGG Terms of Service. Click here for information on how to pay the fee.
 
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Ben Stephenson
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Re: US-50 [Run 2] Perpetual Ship Math Trade Beta
UPDATES
-Fixed Geekmail messages not being sent out for pre-approvals
-Fixed some view mode issues
-Updated timing for lambda issues
-Approved/rejected trades will have the appropriate entries removed from their matrix.
-Users who don't approve/reject a trade before the timer runs out will have their accounts put into stasis (they won't appear in trades) until they login again.

-Added the ability to put cash offers directly on wanted entries (optional). This feature is still just visual as the connections and testing are still being done. With this feature you can make dummy cash entries directly on a trade entry instead of posting cash as it's own entry. We also hoping to add the ability to let you completely auto check your matrix based on the cash values you assign for your owned entries and for wanted entries.
 
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Re: US-50 [Run 2] Perpetual Ship Math Trade Beta
I love the movement of the interaction icons to the left side of the list.
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Davis Z

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Re: US-50 [Run 2] Perpetual Ship Math Trade Beta
Is it just me, because I can't seem to find this listed on the abecorn website in the hosted trades. Would love to participate in this.
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Re: US-50 [Run 2] Perpetual Ship Math Trade Beta
Davis, it's not a hosted trade. When you get to the Abecorn site and login, you will see a list of games. That's the perpetual trade.
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Eric Spiegel
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Re: US-50 [Run 2] Perpetual Ship Math Trade Beta
stormseeker75 wrote:
Davis, it's not a hosted trade. When you get to the Abecorn site and login, you will see a list of games. That's the perpetual trade.


With so much confusion about whether this is or isn't a hosted trade shouldn't it just be moved to the hosted trades tab and list Bien as the host? Otherwise this question will continually be asked.
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Re: US-50 [Run 2] Perpetual Ship Math Trade Beta
I would agree with that. Unless you create a separate tab and call it Perpetual Trade. Some sort of identifier would be helpful.
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Grayson
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Re: US-50 [Run 2] Perpetual Ship Math Trade Beta
Any trade stats being retained between runs? E.g. "30% of items ultimately traded, X number of users had a trade out of Y, and Z items were listed as available regardless of whether they traded or not."

If those stats are known to those who list items, my appologies as I haven't yet; I'm waiting to see how two recent MTs I've been in finish up before attempting this. Either way though, from an analysis standpoint I'm interested in the ebb/flow of it.
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Ben Stephenson
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Re: US-50 [Run 2] Perpetual Ship Math Trade Beta
stormseeker75 wrote:
I would agree with that. Unless you create a separate tab and call it Perpetual Trade. Some sort of identifier would be helpful.

ecspiegel wrote:
stormseeker75 wrote:
Davis, it's not a hosted trade. When you get to the Abecorn site and login, you will see a list of games. That's the perpetual trade.

With so much confusion about whether this is or isn't a hosted trade shouldn't it just be moved to the hosted trades tab and list Bien as the host? Otherwise this question will continually be asked.


Added a link under 'hosted trades' called Perpetual trade, that redirects to the perpetual page.
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Ben Stephenson
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Re: US-50 [Run 2] Perpetual Ship Math Trade Beta
143245 wrote:
Any trade stats being retained between runs? E.g. "30% of items ultimately traded, X number of users had a trade out of Y, and Z items were listed as available regardless of whether they traded or not."

If those stats are known to those who list items, my appologies as I haven't yet; I'm waiting to see how two recent MTs I've been in finish up before attempting this. Either way though, from an analysis standpoint I'm interested in the ebb/flow of it.


What stats from the olwlg do you like? What other stats would you like to see?

We've been making lots of back end data handling changes, so not everything, yet, is coherent enough to keep stats on.

At this point we track, what items are being traded historically, who wanted them, who wants untraded items, and what they were offering for them.

Everyone will (now) be able to see perpetual generated trades, even if they aren't a participant, they just wont be able to interact and won't receive a geekmail/email telling them to go acknowledge them.
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Grayson
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Re: US-50 [Run 2] Perpetual Ship Math Trade Beta
Bien wrote:
143245 wrote:
Any trade stats being retained between runs? E.g. "30% of items ultimately traded, X number of users had a trade out of Y, and Z items were listed as available regardless of whether they traded or not."

If those stats are known to those who list items, my apologies as I haven't yet; I'm waiting to see how two recent MTs I've been in finish up before attempting this. Either way though, from an analysis standpoint I'm interested in the ebb/flow of it.


What stats from the olwlg do you like? What other stats would you like to see?

We've been making lots of back end data handling changes, so not everything, yet, is coherent enough to keep stats on.

At this point we track, what items are being traded historically, who wanted them, who wants untraded items, and what they were offering for them.

Everyone will (now) be able to see perpetual generated trades, even if they aren't a participant, they just wont be able to interact and won't receive a geekmail/email telling them to go acknowledge them.


Right off the top of my head some of the stuff that spits out of TradeMax in that results text file would be nice to view such as

Quote:
Num trades 543 of 3098 items (17.5%)


I gather you already have the loops, but I don't see a place where you can pick up the item movement percentage and maybe that's because the approve/deny of the recurring trade messes with that.

Outside of that, massaging the wants into aggregate data (18 people wanted Pandemic, 12 wanted Chicago Express, etc), and allow sorting by what people were offering for your stuff (in an attempt to determine valuation). Last, the raw wants so you can start tracing want chains together. I look at all three in the OLWLG MTs I participate in. Nothing that is rocket science in this instance other than keeping track of it all for longitudinal analysis.
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Ryan Langewisch
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Re: US-50 [Run 2] Perpetual Ship Math Trade Beta
I seem to be having trouble getting my wants matrix setup... It seems like this isn't what I should be seeing?

 
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Travis Dean
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Re: US-50 [Run 2] Perpetual Ship Math Trade Beta
Correct, you should see your games that you are offering along the top. I have no idea why you're not seeing any of that, assuming you did list your games.
 
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Ben Stephenson
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Re: US-50 [Run 2] Perpetual Ship Math Trade Beta
Legendary wrote:
I seem to be having trouble getting my wants matrix setup... It seems like this isn't what I should be seeing?



You haven't listed any items to trade yet. Once you list something the row at the top will appear.
 
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Ryan Langewisch
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Re: US-50 [Run 2] Perpetual Ship Math Trade Beta
Ah, figured it out. I needed to filter by "Haves" to see anything showing up on the add items page.
 
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Ben Stephenson
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Re: US-50 [Run 2] Perpetual Ship Math Trade Beta
Just under an hour before the trades are generated.
 
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Eric Hallahan
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Re: US-50 [Run 2] Perpetual Ship Math Trade Beta
How will we know when it is finished? I see the countdown clock is done, but it still looks the same to me.
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Ben Stephenson
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Re: US-50 [Run 2] Perpetual Ship Math Trade Beta
emanhall wrote:
How will we know when it is finished? I see the countdown clock is done, but it still looks the same to me.


You'll get an automated trade notification if you're in a trade. They just got sent out.
 
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Re: US-50 [Run 2 Results In] Perpetual Ship Math Trade Beta [Run 3 Started]
Are we going to see public wants?
 
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Ben Stephenson
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Re: US-50 [Run 2 Results In] Perpetual Ship Math Trade Beta [Run 3 Started]
83 trades spread over 5 loops.
 
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Mike Weimholt
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Re: US-50 [Run 2 Results In] Perpetual Ship Math Trade Beta [Run 3 Started]
Well, that didn't take long. One of the two loops I had possible trades in already got rejected.
 
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Ben Stephenson
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Re: US-50 [Run 2 Results In] Perpetual Ship Math Trade Beta [Run 3 Started]
mweimholt wrote:
Well, that didn't take long. One of the two loops I had possible trades in already got rejected.


It's rerunning immediately, now that it automatically removes the rejector's item from the trade.
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Re: US-50 [Run 2 Results In] Perpetual Ship Math Trade Beta [Run 3 Started]
Bien wrote:
mweimholt wrote:
Well, that didn't take long. One of the two loops I had possible trades in already got rejected.


It's rerunning immediately, now that it automatically removes the rejector's item from the trade.


That's definitely an improvement. Thanks.
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Robert Moore
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Re: US-50 [Run 2 Results In] Perpetual Ship Math Trade Beta [Run 3 Started]
Bien wrote:
mweimholt wrote:
Well, that didn't take long. One of the two loops I had possible trades in already got rejected.


It's rerunning immediately, now that it automatically removes the rejector's item from the trade.


I think that's the way to go with this system, so I'm looking forward to see how that works out.
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