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Subject: Production Chain summary (and are we missing some cards?) rss

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Arthur O'Dwyer
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After our second (two-player) playthrough tonight, we decided to lay out all the cards in the deck and look at what production chains were there. Here's the result:


- Weaving Mill (3) -> Tailor's Shop (4*)
- Mill (2) -> Bakery (4*) -> Food Factory (8)
- Cattle Ranch (3) -> Tannery (6) -> Shoemaker (8)
- Cattle Ranch (3) -> Butcher (7)
- Sawmill (2) -> Cooperage (5)
- Sawmill (2) + Glassmaker (4) -> Window Manufacturer (5)
- Iron Smelter (3*) -> Tool Maker (6*)
- Brick Manufacturer (2*)

The number in parentheses is the value of the produced good. An asterisk indicates that the production chain requires coal in addition to the good from the previous step (and thus produces 2 goods instead of 1).

Here's the same diagram with number of copies of the card in the deck instead of goods' values.

- Weaving Mill (8) -> Tailor's Shop (6)
- Mill (6) -> Bakery (5) -> Food Factory (3)
- Cattle Ranch (6) -> Tannery (3) -> Shoemaker (3)
- Cattle Ranch (6) -> Butcher (3)
- Sawmill (5) -> Cooperage (4)
- Sawmill (5) + Glassmaker (4) -> Window Manufacturer (3)
- Iron Smelter (6) -> Tool Maker (4)
- Brick Manufacturer (8)

Notice that the Brick Manufacturer has no tech tree at all; despite the vast number of these cards in the deck, there's nothing you can actually do with brick in the game.

Notice that only two tech trees are deeper than one link: Mill-Bakery-Factory and Ranch-Tannery-Shoemaker.

Notice that there are only three tech trees in the game that never require multiple inputs to the same production chain (that is, have no asterisks in the first diagram above). Those tech trees are Ranch-Tannery-Shoemaker, Ranch-Butcher, and Sawmill-Cooperage.

These are the tech trees that are most valuable as far as we could tell, because you can just sit your efficient worker at the bottom of the chain all game, and then on the last turn of the game when production chains are free, you can convert your huge stack of cattle into shoes or meat, or convert your huge stack of lumber into barrels.

In fact, forget Sawmill-Cooperage; barrels are valued at 5, but for the same amount of work, you could get hides or meat worth 6 or 7 respectively. Plus, even the first step of the cattle tech tree is worth 3, compared to lumber's 2 (and that 50% improvement is a big deal when most of the relevant prices in the game are between 6 and 8).

The fact that Cattle Ranch is the best cash-grab among the starter buildings, plus having the two best tech trees in the game, led us to the — perhaps premature, but psychologically inescapable — conclusion that the only reasonable winning strategy in the game is "buy Cattle Ranch as soon as possible; make cattle all game; build Butcher (or Tannery if you must) but don't ever pay to use it; hoard cattle."

So far I'm agreeing with the comparison to Machi Koro. Solid-sounding concept, but the cards don't have the variety or balance that would make a really good game. And like Machi Koro, it's tempting to think that expansion packs could fix it, but I think you'd also have to remove or refactor a lot of the base game.
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Nick Shaw
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Interesting analysis!

It's likely that your suggested winning strategy is probably true, but how likely are you to get all the cards you need to do that strategy? (Of course, if you get lucky and just happen to draw them, you're probably going to end up winning, which would seem a bit unfair).

How much do those buildings cost to build? Would that be a restriction on the possibility of creating the required chain of events?
 
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Alexander Pfister
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Thanks, Arthur, for your summary of the cards. There is also a good excel sheet in the file section, which lists all the cards.

Regarding your conclusions:
Keep in mind, that wood is more often in the deck than any other resource. Therefore producing barrels is very good because your production chain is more valuable.
Also: I saw people being very successful with glass. Often you just pay 2 cards to get 2 glass worth 8 coins. Great at the begining. This is also fantastic when you have the market office, that gives you an extra card. Great combo!

Also don't forget when you start, you have lots of coal. If you save some and convert it to bread or cloth, you make a lot of profit. That's also the reason why I like to start with bricks. The first brick building is cheap, a lot of coal remains to be converted together with clay in your hand. So for example you have 3 clay in your starting hand, build a brick manufacturer in your first round and activate it in your second round. Than you'll have the production + 3 clay + 3 coal= 7 or 8 bricks!!

And yes, I agree: I also like the cattle start. Especially if you have some wheat in your hand.

And don't forget the assistants. You need certain colours of buildings to hire them. So you have to adapt your strategy to the assistants in play and can't just play the same strategy all the time.

Check out the new expansion "Revolt in Longsdale", which will be available in ~2 months. It will hold some surprises, which I don't want to spoil (as a story is told and in each chapter/game new cards are introduced and you have to fight famine or help build a cathedral etc.)
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Nick Shaw
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AlexP wrote:
Check out the new expansion "Revolt in Longsdale", which will be available in ~2 months. It will hold some surprises, which I don't want to spoil (as a story is told and in each chapter/game new cards are introduced and you have to fight famine or help build a cathedral etc.)


Ooooh, expansion!... Great news!
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Alexander Pfister
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njshaw2 wrote:
AlexP wrote:
Check out the new expansion "Revolt in Longsdale", which will be available in ~2 months. It will hold some surprises, which I don't want to spoil (as a story is told and in each chapter/game new cards are introduced and you have to fight famine or help build a cathedral etc.)


Ooooh, expansion!... Great news!

It will be cheap, small and not widely distributed. Probably only available in Essen and from the Lookout shop/homepage.
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Nick Shaw
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AlexP wrote:
It will be cheap, small and not widely distributed. Probably only available in Essen and from the Lookout shop/homepage.


Fair enough. If it's cheap, then ordering directly from Lookout's online shop would probably still be cheap enough to be a viable purchase, even with shipping from Germany to UK.
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Armand
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AlexP wrote:
njshaw2 wrote:
AlexP wrote:
Check out the new expansion "Revolt in Longsdale", which will be available in ~2 months. It will hold some surprises, which I don't want to spoil (as a story is told and in each chapter/game new cards are introduced and you have to fight famine or help build a cathedral etc.)


Ooooh, expansion!... Great news!

It will be cheap, small and not widely distributed. Probably only available in Essen and from the Lookout shop/homepage.


Would Lookout consider sending some to BGG for sale in the store? It would make it a bit cheaper for US residents and Lookout would get an equal value in ad credit.
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Daniel Theuerkaufer
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Arthur, when I started reading your analysis, I thought for a short moment that you might have taken away the magic of OMG for me. I just skimmed it to see what it is about because I didn't want to spoil myself. As soon as logic beats how I play games just by instinct, I feel like I don't stand a chance any longer to win. Or the winning strategy will be present before my inner eye non-stop. So yeah, I have to stop thinking about it now and hopefully will forget what I saw here ;-)

Regarding the expansion: great news!
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Kevin B. Smith
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snake2shake wrote:
So yeah, I have to stop thinking about it now and hopefully will forget what I saw here ;-)

If it helps, some of the initial conclusions might actually be inconclusive. So I think your intuitive style is safe.
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Oscar Gomez
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AlexP wrote:
njshaw2 wrote:
AlexP wrote:
Check out the new expansion "Revolt in Longsdale", which will be available in ~2 months. It will hold some surprises, which I don't want to spoil (as a story is told and in each chapter/game new cards are introduced and you have to fight famine or help build a cathedral etc.)


Ooooh, expansion!... Great news!

It will be cheap, small and not widely distributed. Probably only available in Essen and from the Lookout shop/homepage.


Japan fans say
 
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Graeme Smith
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After two slightly lacklustre two player games of this we also had a look over some of the possible chains in this game like you did. We were surprised to note too that bricks didn't progress anywhere but also that clothing seemed like a very poor choice as the value of it's chain goods is the same as the good itself (so you gain nothing) and there is no third tier good to convert them in to as well. Quite frustrating to play, cycling through hands of cards hoping to find ones that use up the tier 1 and tier 2 production goods you have only to find afterwards that they don't actually exist. I think the design would have been greatly improved with more consistency in how the different goods can be chained.
 
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Alexander Pfister
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burntoutmouse wrote:
...but also that clothing seemed like a very poor choice as the value of it's chain goods is the same as the good itself (so you gain nothing)

Thanks for your feedback! You seemed to miss this rule: 1 Coal (1$) + 1 cloth (3$) = 2!! shirts (2x4$). So put all chained products on the building. I hope it makes more sense for you now.
Be also sure to use the 2nd edition rules: https://www.mayfairgames.com/gamesupport/oh-my-goods-rules-v...
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Graeme Smith
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AlexP wrote:
burntoutmouse wrote:
...but also that clothing seemed like a very poor choice as the value of it's chain goods is the same as the good itself (so you gain nothing)

Thanks for your feedback! You seemed to miss this rule: 1 Coal (1$) + 1 cloth (3$) = 2!! shirts (2x4$). So put all chained products on the building. I hope it makes more sense for you now.
Be also sure to use the 2nd edition rules: https://www.mayfairgames.com/gamesupport/oh-my-goods-rules-v...


Thanks for your response Alex. Yes I was using 2nd edition rules but I had managed to miss the rule you refer to, this certainly changes things! So just to clarify if a chain requires 1 good, it produces 1 good, and if it needs 2 it produces 2? Is the idea that you just move those cards used onto the building or discard them and draw new ones?
 
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Jonathan Franklin
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AlexP,

How do the 1st vs. 2nd edition rule apply when using the new expansion? Or do you ignore them completely and use the rules in the expansion box?
 
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Alexander Pfister
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burntoutmouse wrote:


Thanks for your response Alex. Yes I was using 2nd edition rules but I had managed to miss the rule you refer to, this certainly changes things! So just to clarify if a chain requires 1 good, it produces 1 good, and if it needs 2 it produces 2? Is the idea that you just move those cards used onto the building or discard them and draw new ones?

Thats the reason for this rule, it reduces handling. You just put the cards from one building (e.g. coal from charburner) to the new one.


Jonathan: Expansion bases on the 2nd edition rules. A link to them for all having the 1st edition is found in the rule book of the expansion.
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