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Subject: Counter to halfling picks in game with turn 4 spade rss

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tomo kallang
United States
California
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I am new to this game and want to ask seasoned player how do you counter player who pick halflings in game with turn 4 1 spade > 2vp (SCORE1) bonus?

My observations:
1. There are 226 games from 4p league division 1 to 4 with turn 4 spade bonus.
2. Among these games, halflings were picked 168 times and won 54 times.
3. Among these games with halflings picked, chaosmagician won 41 times, darklings won 37 times and witches won 21 times. The other factions has less than 20 wins each.

My questions:
1. (as stated earlier) how will you counter halflings if it were picked in game with turn 3 spade?
2. why does chaosmagicians perform well against halflings for seasoned players?
 
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Matthias Reitberger
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Chaosmagicians will generally perform wel with no grey and yellow faction in the game. An early halflings pick will discourage players taking nomads.
Turn 4 spade can be countered by alchemists or outperformed by engineers.
Turn 3 spade doesn't need special attention, halflings can't win the game at that point.
 
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Steinar Nerhus
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Here is an interesting game where Mermaids has scored the same amount as Halflings by digging on round 4:

http://terra.snellman.net/faction/4pLeague_S14_D2L2_G7

Note that the game is not yet finished.

For Mermaids I think this works best if there is a D>>2 in round 1 and they get Bon4 (3 pw and +Shipping), which is not always the case... Maybe Whiches can do something similar with such a setup as well. The problem is ofcourse that you will need a lot more cash than the Halflings :/

Edit: Added description of Bonus tile 4...
 
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Chris Sandman
Germany
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I had a digintense spaderound3 game this season combined with a dwelling spree and d>2 round 1 that worked quite well:

http://terra.snellman.net/game/4pLeague_S14_D4L1_G3

Edit: no ingame halflings though
 
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tomo kallang
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1869 wrote:

Turn 4 spade can be countered by alchemists or outperformed by engineers.


Maybe the sample size is too small and alchemists is often blocked by darklings:
1. 22 games from 4pleague division 1 to 4 with both halflings and alchemists, and turn 4 spade bonus. (in contrast, there are 112 games with both halflings and darklings)
2. 12 of them halflings was picked after alchemists. Halflings had better score 9 times.
3. 10 of them alchemists was picked after halflings. Halflings had better score 4 times.
It seems to me that halflings is a better counter pick to alchemists player, and picking alchemists does not discourage opponent from picking halfling as a response.

For engineer there are more games as dwarves is not picked often:
1. 46 games 4pleague division 1 to 4 with both halflings and engineers, and turn 4 spade bonus. (in contrast, there are 25 games with both halflings and dwarves)
2. 9 of them halflings was picked after engineers. Halflings had better score 4 times.
3. 37 of them engineers was picked after halflings. Halflings had better score 21 times.
It seems that picking engineers discourages opponents from picking halflings (ignoring all other factors and small sample size), but does not perform well as a counter pick.

I came up with this thread when checking out witches players in division 1 to 4 games. Take a look at http://terra.snellman.net/player/rainbowjoe#stats for example: 6 league game with witches, 4 of them with round 4 spades (2 of them from division 3 and 4) and he won all his witches game. Yet this seems like a pocket strategy that only works for him; witches does not do well against halflings in these games in general.

My guess is that green and red factions generally occupy the center, thus cutting halflings into two. They score better on cults too. Combine with other round bonus and faction ability, they may be a better counter then black and grey factions.
 
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tomo kallang
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DieKrake wrote:
I had a digintense spaderound3 game this season combined with a dwelling spree and d>2 round 1 that worked quite well:

http://terra.snellman.net/game/4pLeague_S14_D4L1_G3

Edit: no ingame halflings though


your game is not counted in the data I collected: it has no halflings and ends in August. But it is interesting to note that witches can take advantage of spade bonus round too.

Edit: add quote.
 
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Chris Sandman
Germany
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tomo_kallang wrote:
DieKrake wrote:
I had a digintense spaderound3 game this season combined with a dwelling spree and d>2 round 1 that worked quite well:

http://terra.snellman.net/game/4pLeague_S14_D4L1_G3

Edit: no ingame halflings though


your game is not counted in the data I collected: it has no halflings and ends in August. But it is interesting to note that witches can take advantage of spade bonus round too.

Edit: add quote.


Was rather a response to stones post concerning witches and a dwelling spree. Should have added a quote there but since i posted it via smartphone i did not edit this afterwards. But youre of course right a bit offtopic for sure!
 
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Matthias Reitberger
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Stones wrote:
Here is an interesting game where Mermaids has scored the same amount as Halflings by digging on round 4:

http://terra.snellman.net/faction/4pLeague_S14_D2L2_G7


They both did 10 digs resulting in 20vp from d>>2, but halflings of course scored another 10vp because of their faction ability.
If that's a better effect than building a three towns easily and probably a bigger network for mermaids is not yet dicided.
Most factions can concentrate on digging in round 4 and upgrade as well as collect some workers till then, but only halflings and alchemists with sh get a special benefit from the digs.
But that isn't necessarily game deciding, you can as well play a standard engineers or chaosmagicians game with maybe an act6 in round 4 and outperform factions concentrating on digging bonus.
 
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James Wolfpacker
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I'd go with Yellow Yetis! whistle
 
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Petri Savola
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Here's a game where I tried to abuse round 4 spades with Mermaids against the Halflings: http://terra.snellman.net/game/4pLeague_S13_D1L1_G2

And here's a game where I managed to abuse round 3 spades with Halflings very well: http://terra.snellman.net/game/Jan272

The game is probably almost decided at that point.
 
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Sam
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You can build four towns whistle
http://terra.snellman.net/game/Assam02
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Robert
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harq wrote:
...while having somebody else take one for the team and pick Fakirs.
 
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James Wolfpacker
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DocCool wrote:
harq wrote:
...while having somebody else take one for the team and pick Fakirs.


CTKShadow wrote:
....So for some factions, like Halflings and Darklings, picking into a self-sandwich, or deliberately sandwiching an opponent may be the best choice. On the other hand, even James is not crazy enough to pick Fakirs into just Halflings (and yes, I specifically picked Halflings that game to stop Fakirs from getting picked because the setup was surprisingly very good for them )....


I guess Raspberry is crazy enough to pick Fakirs into just Halflings! surprise
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jesse goldstein
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Virginia
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I was able to counter halflings with witches.... mainly because I got the idea from this thread - so thanks!
here is the game:

https://terra.snellman.net/faction/4pLeague_S16_D7L55_G7

 
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