Mark Campo
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other then its a about spiders i've not got much from the previews?

hows its different from the dragon?
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Well, specific story and adventure cards are what makes a scenario peculiar, so, I'd say it's entirely different? And you get a new hero. Then, clearly, it's always RuneBound, so general rules and structure of the game are the same.

So, if you hope to have the game revolutionised by a 15 quid expansion, then it's not your cup of tea. If you want a new story and a new hero, it should be fun. It's more difficult than Margath, so if you want some extra challenge it should be good
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Scarlet Witch wrote:
Well, specific story and adventure cards are what makes a scenario peculiar, so, I'd say it's entirely different? And you get a new hero. Then, clearly, it's always RuneBound, so general rules and structure of the game are the same.

So, if you hope to have the game revolutionised by a 15 quid expansion, then it's not your cup of tea. If you want a new story and a new hero, it should be fun. It's more difficult than Margath, so if you want some extra challenge it should be good


We found Ariad to be way, way easier to defeat than Margath. What do you think makes her more difficult?
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Enon Sci
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I lack the time to do a genuine comparison, but my group found Ariad harder as well (and we misplayed by allowing repeated attempts upon failure).
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Enon Sci
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On my way out of the door to work I did a quick comparison of the cards with relative strengths in mind.

Margath has a lead in explicit life points (15 to 13), but this can be reduced through lore, and likely will be. I say they're roughly even here, with the possibility Ariad could take the lead.

When it comes to tokens, Ariad does more overt damage, with her 2 damage unblockable Charge attack, with a single skull on the reverse. Granted, this opens Ariad up to not using defense options upon use, but in skilled hands it can be effective (and that prohibition lasts until the end of that combat round only). Since Villains often have more tokens than heroes, it isn't too hard to reserve that attack till the opponent has exhausted their offensive options.

Margath does 2 blockable damage, and has a surge.

When it comes to powers, Margath needs two surges to deal 2 damage, where Ariad needs one surge to generate the same. Her poisoning ability can also chip away at a player if used early in the combat round.

All in all, neither is a walk in the park, but I'd say Ariad edges Margath out in ease of damage dealing and hit point strength, potentially (Margath's health can start as low as 7 or 8, if memory serves).
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bleached_lizard wrote:
Scarlet Witch wrote:
Well, specific story and adventure cards are what makes a scenario peculiar, so, I'd say it's entirely different? And you get a new hero. Then, clearly, it's always RuneBound, so general rules and structure of the game are the same.

So, if you hope to have the game revolutionised by a 15 quid expansion, then it's not your cup of tea. If you want a new story and a new hero, it should be fun. It's more difficult than Margath, so if you want some extra challenge it should be good


We found Ariad to be way, way easier to defeat than Margath. What do you think makes her more difficult?


Mostly what Enon said, but regardless, our log with Ariad reads victory in the 60% of the cases, while with Margath it's 75% (we played something more than 10 games against each enemy)

Possibly, Ariad's scenario has movement a little bit trickier due to web tokens on the map so that you lose time that in Margath's scenario can be used in a more fruitful way.
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Plus, if memory helps (I don't have the gamma version of the game yet), Ariad's timer is shorter: at the end of Act II you lose the game, period, while Margath gives you a few more turns due to his movement towards Tamalir, so that you actually have more time to gear up
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Lucas Hedgren
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Scarlet Witch wrote:
Plus, if memory helps (I don't have the gamma version of the game yet), Ariad's timer is shorter: at the end of Act II you lose the game, period, while Margath gives you a few more turns due to his movement towards Tamalir, so that you actually have more time to gear up


This. For Ariad, you need to be in or very near the final city on that last turn. Several turns less of prep makes a difference, especially when you are slowed a bit by webs.
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We've only played the Ariad scenario once, and one player defeated her about a third of the way through Act II. And he only really attacked her because it was getting late and he needed to go home!
 
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Mark Campo
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other then difficulty of the boss then...

is a good new "Feeling" / "story" to the game..

does it have different pressure..? story quests you want to rush too before an opponent..


whats is the over all story arc?

e.g dragon is.

A dont believe dragons exists explore myths and "sightings"
B dragons do exists tool up on lore
C Race to stop the big bad dragon..

sub plots: Cultists and refuges

 
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Doesn't Ariad's card say the game is over when all cities have webs?

That being the case, the game is over on the turn she reaches Tamalir and your last chance to defeat her is in the previous city. This is a bit unintuitive as it means the game effectively ends on the last Act II Story Card space.

I'm going from memory here, but if I'm right this means the biggest difference between Ariad and Margath is you have much less time to defeat Ariad, because she wins before Act II is even finished while Margath has to get not only to the end of Act II but then make his way to Tamalir. If he's unlucky that's quite a few extra turns. More time means stronger heros, and an easier final fight (potentially).
 
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Orion3T wrote:
Doesn't Ariad's card say the game is over when all cities have webs?

That being the case, the game is over on the turn she reaches Tamalir and your last chance to defeat her is in the previous city. This is a bit unintuitive as it means the game effectively ends on the last Act II Story Card space.

I'm going from memory here, but if I'm right this means the biggest difference between Ariad and Margath is you have much less time to defeat Ariad, because she wins before Act II is even finished while Margath has to get not only to the end of Act II but then make his way to Tamalir. If he's unlucky that's quite a few extra turns. More time means stronger heros, and an easier final fight (potentially).

No, the game is over at the end of the round when she reaches the last city, so you still have a chance to attack her there.

That said - I'm a little disappointed with the new scenario, I think the game allows for more potential twists other than at the end of act 1 a monster appears, defeat it before the end of act 2. This is especially glaring as the rest of the game can be played through without combat, that's a big feature of 3rd edition, but the end game always boils down to the big fight. We could have missions to be solved all over the board before the time runs out, bringing specific items to specific sites etc. As it is I really don't care which of the 3 scenarios I play, they're basically the same.

And I find Ariad to be the easiest, especially webs in strongholds giving cheaper learning make the game much easier.
 
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borsook wrote:
No, the game is over at the end of the round when she reaches the last city, so you still have a chance to attack her there.


Right, it's at the end of the round.

However, she moves when you draw a story card, which happens at the end of the round after the players have taken their actions. It's like this: Move timer -> Draw card -> Move Ariad (placing her Web) -> Round end. So after she moves to Tamalir, the round ends before anyone can take an action (as that would be the next round) there will be a Web on every city (as Tamalir is the final one and they cannot be removed) and the game ends in a loss.
 
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Orion3T wrote:
borsook wrote:
No, the game is over at the end of the round when she reaches the last city, so you still have a chance to attack her there.


Right, it's at the end of the round.

However, she moves when you draw a story card, which happens at the end of the round after the players have taken their actions. It's like this: Move timer -> Draw card -> Move Ariad (placing her Web) -> Round end. So after she moves to Tamalir, the round ends before anyone can take an action (as that would be the next round) there will be a Web on every city (as Tamalir is the final one and they cannot be removed) and the game ends in a loss.

Are you sure? I've always treated doing the story card as the beginning of a round. You end the round, move the marker, you begin the new round by resolving the card.
 
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borsook wrote:
Orion3T wrote:
borsook wrote:
No, the game is over at the end of the round when she reaches the last city, so you still have a chance to attack her there.


Right, it's at the end of the round.

However, she moves when you draw a story card, which happens at the end of the round after the players have taken their actions. It's like this: Move timer -> Draw card -> Move Ariad (placing her Web) -> Round end. So after she moves to Tamalir, the round ends before anyone can take an action (as that would be the next round) there will be a Web on every city (as Tamalir is the final one and they cannot be removed) and the game ends in a loss.

Are you sure? I've always treated doing the story card as the beginning of a round. You end the round, move the marker, you begin the new round by resolving the card.


Why would you do it that way?
 
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bleached_lizard wrote:
borsook wrote:
Orion3T wrote:
borsook wrote:
No, the game is over at the end of the round when she reaches the last city, so you still have a chance to attack her there.


Right, it's at the end of the round.

However, she moves when you draw a story card, which happens at the end of the round after the players have taken their actions. It's like this: Move timer -> Draw card -> Move Ariad (placing her Web) -> Round end. So after she moves to Tamalir, the round ends before anyone can take an action (as that would be the next round) there will be a Web on every city (as Tamalir is the final one and they cannot be removed) and the game ends in a loss.

Are you sure? I've always treated doing the story card as the beginning of a round. You end the round, move the marker, you begin the new round by resolving the card.


Why would you do it that way?

I guess it just seams logical to me. Not sure how the rules state it
 
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borsook wrote:
Orion3T wrote:
borsook wrote:
No, the game is over at the end of the round when she reaches the last city, so you still have a chance to attack her there.


Right, it's at the end of the round.

However, she moves when you draw a story card, which happens at the end of the round after the players have taken their actions. It's like this: Move timer -> Draw card -> Move Ariad (placing her Web) -> Round end. So after she moves to Tamalir, the round ends before anyone can take an action (as that would be the next round) there will be a Web on every city (as Tamalir is the final one and they cannot be removed) and the game ends in a loss.

Are you sure? I've always treated doing the story card as the beginning of a round. You end the round, move the marker, you begin the new round by resolving the card.


I'm sure moving the token happens at the end of a round, not at the beginning. It's stated on pages 11 and 13 of the Rules Reference under 'Rounds' and 'Time Token and Time Track'.

However by a strict ruling as written, the Round End, Time Token, Story Card, and Ariad movement would all occur simultaneously. Depending how you interpret 'then, place a web...' you could interpret the Web to also be placed simultaneously, or you could interpret the 'then' as being after completion of the other events making the web appear after round end. To me, this would seem to leave it ambiguous at best whether another round is played or not.

Might be one for FFG to clarify?
 
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Orion3T wrote:
borsook wrote:
Orion3T wrote:
borsook wrote:
No, the game is over at the end of the round when she reaches the last city, so you still have a chance to attack her there.


Right, it's at the end of the round.

However, she moves when you draw a story card, which happens at the end of the round after the players have taken their actions. It's like this: Move timer -> Draw card -> Move Ariad (placing her Web) -> Round end. So after she moves to Tamalir, the round ends before anyone can take an action (as that would be the next round) there will be a Web on every city (as Tamalir is the final one and they cannot be removed) and the game ends in a loss.

Are you sure? I've always treated doing the story card as the beginning of a round. You end the round, move the marker, you begin the new round by resolving the card.


I'm sure moving the token happens at the end of a round, not at the beginning. It's stated on pages 11 and 13 of the Rules Reference under 'Rounds' and 'Time Token and Time Track'.

However by a strict ruling as written, the Round End, Time Token, Story Card, and Ariad movement would all occur simultaneously. Depending how you interpret 'then, place a web...' you could interpret the Web to also be placed simultaneously, or you could interpret the 'then' as being after completion of the other events making the web appear after round end. To me, this would seem to leave it ambiguous at best whether another round is played or not.

Might be one for FFG to clarify?

Well... interpreting the rules literary it would seem that indeed the city before last is the last chance to fight her, but that's kind of counter-intuitive and breaks the idea of the last heroic fight... so whatever FFG says I am going to still play this way, so after she moves to the last city there is one more turn to fight her. Also this means that reading that last story card makes some sense, otherwise why even look at it if the game is over?
 
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borsook wrote:
Well... interpreting the rules literary it would seem that indeed the city before last is the last chance to fight her, but that's kind of counter-intuitive and breaks the idea of the last heroic fight... so whatever FFG says I am going to still play this way, so after she moves to the last city there is one more turn to fight her. Also this means that reading that last story card makes some sense, otherwise why even look at it if the game is over?


Well it wouldn't surprise me if that's what the designers intended and it's just an unintended consequence of the way they worded it. But really the discussion was supposed to be about difficulty of Ariad vs Margath, and in either case the point is that players get probably around 6 extra turns to defeat Margath.

Even if there are some other features of the Ariad scenario which help players out, I think this is probably the single biggest difference affecting overall difficulty. Other differences are harder to quantify, for example Ariad jumps around the board which might make her easier or more difficult depending on the situation, and webs might slow you down or you might find the right story cards come out and they end up being an overall benefit.

Either way having about 25% more time to defeat the boss is a pretty huge factor. I can't even imagine us running out of time on Margath before players feel ready to try and fight him; the last several times we played he was defeated before the end of Act II, sometimes despite using the Story Quest which accelerates the time track.
 
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Orion3T wrote:
borsook wrote:
Well... interpreting the rules literary it would seem that indeed the city before last is the last chance to fight her, but that's kind of counter-intuitive and breaks the idea of the last heroic fight... so whatever FFG says I am going to still play this way, so after she moves to the last city there is one more turn to fight her. Also this means that reading that last story card makes some sense, otherwise why even look at it if the game is over?


Well it wouldn't surprise me if that's what the designers intended and it's just an unintended consequence of the way they worded it. But really the discussion was supposed to be about difficulty of Ariad vs Margath, and in either case the point is that players get probably around 6 extra turns to defeat Margath.

Even if there are some other features of the Ariad scenario which help players out, I think this is probably the single biggest difference affecting overall difficulty. Other differences are harder to quantify, for example Ariad jumps around the board which might make her easier or more difficult depending on the situation, and webs might slow you down or you might find the right story cards come out and they end up being an overall benefit.

Either way having about 25% more time to defeat the boss is a pretty huge factor. I can't even imagine us running out of time on Margath before players feel ready to try and fight him; the last several times we played he was defeated before the end of Act II, sometimes despite using the Story Quest which accelerates the time track.

It's hard to judge difficulty due to the fact that Ariad has a static health and Margath has not. With Ariad the final fight seems less dependent on the overall game. I manage to defeat her in the first game I played, Margath in the 3rd, but overall experience with the game growing may be a factor here.
 
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borsook wrote:
It's hard to judge difficulty due to the fact that Ariad has a static health and Margath has not.


I think this is just another example of how the difficulty of the scenario is not only dependent on the boss. It also depends on the scenario length, story cards, even the Scenario Adventure cards could have an effect. I do know we have never lost to Margath, and only in our first ever game did he even get close to Tamalir.

Quote:
With Ariad the final fight seems less dependent on the overall game. I manage to defeat her in the first game I played, Margath in the 3rd, but overall experience with the game growing may be a factor here.


Yes, I think so. Becoming more familiar with the game overall will make new scenarios seem easier than those you learned the game with. I'd suspect (though I don't claim this is a fact) if you play Ariad a few times then go back to Margath, you might feel differently.

There are also a lot of random factors going on which are independent of the scenario and hard to evaluate. Which skills you draw, which cards you draw and when, how kind the markets are, and even a few bad rolls on the movement dice or casts of the combat tokens at a crucial time can skew the game one way or the other.
 
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I did purchase the pack and the moutian pack ..

and i

I endorse the bug adventure it felt fun and i lost 1st time solo 1 hero + new mountains expansions playing by the rules with deck constructions

its different from the dragon scenario

it produced movement affecting game play via story placed web tokens
and the games seemed to end sooner and harder to get prepared for due to movement restrictions and luck of items in cites you where close too.

overall recommended++ for the same runebound but different feeling :-)

what you did to defeat the dragon might not have the time to defeat the bug..



it defiantly had a bugs are invading the earth apocalypse vibe early on
where i didn't quiet get that feeling with the base dragon until he rolled me in to Tamiler crushing me completely ...


but i did have some repetition .story cards didnt add much beyond. bugs invade here.. bugs invade here.. a bit more fluff text please, maybe like lotr story insert?

note i've not played the undead scenario from the base game yet.


Glory to battle was new mountains expansion skills it kept me moving despite the webs i think.. thats how i played it any way
 
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