Carquinyoli

Tarragona
Catalunya
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You may go straight to the end, to the 3 questions.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
First off, just mention that I play DM from time to time and since we don't know the cards and interactions, when we play we just take 16 random cards and draft them, so sometimes it appears a combo that we did not foresaw and it's impossible to counter:

My rival bought pretty quick 3 QuickSilver: Pietro Maximoff (cost 3) dice
Quote:
when fielded, do 1 damage to a character
and the one dice for Cerebro: Cybernetic Intelligence
Quote:
Place Cerebro on an X-Men die’s card. It remains there until you or a card effect removes it (it is still in the field). When you field a die from that card, knock out one opposing die.


And placed Cerebro die on Quicksilver.
So every-time he fielded Quicksilver, one of my Sidekicks and my best fielded character were KO'ed. That without even attacking, just fielding. If he fielded 2 (or 3) QuickSilvers at the same time, then he KO'ed 2(3) sidekicks or another 2(3)D character of mine.
So he wiped my blocking dice and used QS to attack (for 3-4 damage each) --> Used --> Bag --> fielded again.
(Don't want to imagine the combo Cerebro:CI + Psylocke:Kwannon the Assassin).

There were not much I could do.
I think Namor: Atlantean (when Namor blocks you may remove one active action effect) is the only counter, but he was not playing. And I could only do that if he blocked... so my rival may decide not to attack if I have him fielded so Namor doesn't block, or prevent him from blocking with another global, or KO him when fielding with Cerebro...
There's also an basic action card where, if rolled, you pick an energy type so the characters of that type cannot attack that turn... but it's situational.

After the tantrum, the questions:

1) The KO'ed character die (by Cerebro's:CI effect) is selected by the attacker or defender? (we played the attacker selected).
2) If 4 Quicksilvers were fielded on the same turn, 4 characters would be KO'd?**
3) Is there any global (or something) that prevents a character dice from being fielded?


I've surfed a bit but didn't find exact answers for these.

Thanks a lot.

**PS: I ask this because I'm not sure about the
Quote:
Place Cerebro on an X-Men die’s card. It remains there until you or a card effect removes it (it is still in the field). When you field a die from that card, knock out one opposing die.

I mean, if the text were "knock out one opposing die per each die fielded from that card" it would be crystal clear (i.e. you field 3 Quicksilver, you KO 3 dice).
But the text is neither "When you field at least a dice from that card, knock out one opposing die" (i.e. you field 3 Quicksilver, you only KO 1 die).
But the text is neither one or the other, so it's not clear for me... whistle
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul K.
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Unless it says "your opponent chooses", the choice is made by the owner/controller of the effect.

Any/all "when fielded" abilities will trigger for each die that is fielded.

There is no Global to prevent fielding, but even if there were it would be pointless since you wouldn't have a chance to play it before your opponent had already fielded all they wanted to and passed priority to you.

There are several card abilities that can cancel Continuous action dice (which this basically is), though again it would largely need to be done on your turn because of priority. There are also effects that can make your opponent pay to field characters, or be unable to field specific characters, but a potentially easier solution is not to let his Quicksilvers leave the Field. If they attack, chump block them with a Sidekick so they don't damage you but also aren't KO'd. Unless he has a way to force KO them, they can't be refueled that way.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rauli Kettunen
Finland
Oulu
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thing is, you're unlikely to have SKs available to chump block against Quicksilver in this case. Personally I prefer his 4-cost version that does 1 dmg to each opposing SK when fielded. So unless you're packing SK buffers, they won't be around to block.

There is AvX Prof X who prevents opponent from fielding characters, but they can pay two life to nullify the ability for the turn. Alternate route would be to go with characters that hurt your opponent when KOd, AoU Red Skull (Common or Unc) for example either heal you 2 or opponent takes 2 dmg (Common), or opponent draws one less during next Clear and Draw Step or you draw two dice into your Prep (Unc).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carquinyoli

Tarragona
Catalunya
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks both for answering and the explanations thumbsup
The fact is that I have a small collection of dice/cards of the UXM set only (31 different characters with 3 different cards and 3 dice for each of them), which is enough for me for casual play with a friend. I don't want to buy more stuff, so I'll stay with what I already have.

That's it Rauli, all my blockers are gone...
You say you prefer the 4 cost card which does 1 damage to all blockers, so with only 1 of them he'd wipe the field from sidekicks. Yes. But if he fields 2 QS, the second one does nothing because sidekicks are already gone, aren't they?

So yes, maybe the best way to "counter" is to prevent QS from leaving the field. I'll try next time from the beginning... but I cannot see it working: For that to work I need a lot of dice fielded (that requires rolling/fielding a lot of Sidekicks or cheap characters). But every-time he fields QS, two of my dice are gone. Maybe I could try to have a character that when fielded increases sidekicks defence by 1 or 2 (does this character exist?)... although it would be selectively KO'ed with Cerebro:CI. Don't know... shake

Hmmm, from the cards I own, would Storm: Weather Witch global work?
Quote:
Global: Pay mask. Change the target of an action die that targets a character die to the character die of your choice.


I could use the global any time I have a spare mask to move the Cerebro die from QuickSilver to the most expensive card my rival has (or a card he has not bought any dice from yet)... I could use the global on each of my turns (as long as I get masks rolled).
EDIT: hmm but so could him.... so... well.... a duel of rolling masks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rauli Kettunen
Finland
Oulu
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There's plenty of +1/+1 buffers of Sidekicks. Captain America and Green Goblin from AvX immediately come to mind. UXM has Prof Xavier (granted his Rare).

4-cost one works better in singles, meaning you field him on one turn, whammo, KO all SKs, then field another the following turn. Cerebro + Kitty Pryde (cannot be blocked on the turn she is fielded) is a pretty nice combo too, get to KO a bad-ass character from your opponent while chipping in for unblockable dmg.

You could also run the Common Magik from UXM, who basically has Regenerate (though sadly for characters like Taskmaster, she doesn't have it as a bold keyword). Rare Apocalypse is more expensive, but has some staying power.

Not sure about Storm, but my gut feeling is that she doesn't work since Cerebro doesn't use the word "target", even if it effectively does target, but no "target" word makes it avoid Storm's ability.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carquinyoli

Tarragona
Catalunya
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Dam the Man wrote:

Not sure about Storm, but my gut feeling is that she doesn't work since Cerebro doesn't use the word "target", even if it effectively does target, but no "target" word makes it avoid Storm's ability.


Thanks Rauli,
My main concert with Storm is that her global talks about "action die", while Cerebro is a "character die" (that kind of performs an action).
And that Cerebro "... It remains there until you or a card effect removes it (it is still in the field)..." and I'm not sure if a Global (Storm's) is a card effect.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rauli Kettunen
Finland
Oulu
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Cerebro isn't a character die, it's an action die. Just unlike Basic Actions that are available to both (all) players to buy, only you can buy the dice from a non-Basic Action you brought to the table.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul K.
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So two things. First off, you could use Storm's Global to change the KO from your character to one of his. Cerebro is the Action Die that is targeting one of your character dice for KO, so it could be redirected if you have a Mask (but keep in mind, if your opponent also has a Mask, he can redirect it back to you, and so forth until one of you runs out of Masks). Because the ability requires you to select a specific amount of dice to affect (1), it is considered a "targeting" ability even without the use of the word target.

You cannot use Storm's Global to redirect the *placing* of Cerebro, because it does not target a specific die, rather it targets a character CARD, which is very different.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rauli Kettunen
Finland
Oulu
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
pk2317 wrote:
So two things. First off, you could use Storm's Global to change the KO from your character to one of his. Cerebro is the Action Die that is targeting one of your character dice for KO, so it could be redirected if you have a Mask (but keep in mind, if your opponent also has a Mask, he can redirect it back to you, and so forth until one of you runs out of Masks). Because the ability requires you to select a specific amount of dice to affect (1), it is considered a "targeting" ability even without the use of the word target.

You cannot use Storm's Global to redirect the *placing* of Cerebro, because it does not target a specific die, rather it targets a character CARD, which is very different.


Digging in, seems the official line is the exact opposite:

"Storm's Global Ability can select a new target for Cerebro's effect, since Cerebro is an action die, and it is targeting a character. Cerebro's effect is the one targeting the character die, even though it triggers when a character is fielded.

-The Dice Masters Rules Team"

http://win.wizkids.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4019&hilit=st...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carquinyoli

Tarragona
Catalunya
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hmmm, great contradiction between the two opinions. And the two of them make sense...

For now, I think I'd go with the official answer from "The Dice Masters Rules Team" (which may also lead to who has more masks), although I like Paul's option because that way the owner or Cerebro could lose a fielded die if the rival has more masks than him, that is, a real working counter.

With the official answer, if the owner of Cerebro has less masks on the "mask battle", he wouldn't be harmed (he'd just need to replace Cerebro in the future).

Again, thanks both of you for helping me here! thumbsup
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rauli Kettunen
Finland
Oulu
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think the reasoning is that once Cerebro die placed on a character card, you basically treat that character as having an extra "when fielded" ability given to him by Cerebro; it's not Cerebro action that's doing the KOing, it's the character getting fielded that does it and Weather Witch can't do anything about character abilities.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carquinyoli

Tarragona
Catalunya
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So, assuming the official answer is the good one, could I pay a mask (for Storm's global) to remove Cerebro from Quicksilver and place it on one of MY X-Men character cards?
Quote:
Place Cerebro on an X-Men die’s card. It remains there until you or a card effect removes it (it is still in the field). When you field a die from that card, knock out one opposing die.


I guess I could, nonetheless the second part of Cerebro's text wouldn't be carried out if I fielded that character since it's not HIM (the owner of Cerebro) but ME (the rival) who is fielding... but at least I'd take Cerebro out of the fight for a time.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul K.
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sorry Rauli, you have it exactly backwards

The WIN ruling is agreeing with me that you can change the target of Cerebro's KO effect to a different character.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.