Jorge
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Suppose I get an Encampment from the Black Market (the official ruling to handle split piles is do whatever you want). I play the Encampment, I don't reveal a Gold/Plunder, I set it aside but there's no supply.

I assume that it just stays aside for the whole game (on the principle of "do as much as possible") but it returns to my deck for final scoring (Vineyards, Gardens, Wall, Wolf Den, etc), as I failed to return it to the supply. Is this the case?

edit: added "Returning BoM/Overlord as an Encampment" to the title, based on the discussion
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Clive Jones

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Re: Failing to return an Encampment
Interesting question. Though it's one the Dominion Strategy wiki page has already dealt with: yes, it's set aside until the end of the game, then returns to your deck before final scoring.

Which is what one might expect, though not something actually state in the rules, so far as I can see.


A related question: what happens if you play a Band of Misfits or Overlord as Encampment then fail to reveal Gold/Plunder? By my reading, it stops being an Encampment the moment it's set aside so won't be returned anywhere even if BoM/Overlord is in the supply?
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Pawel Pawlak
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Re: Failing to return an Encampment
clivej wrote:
A related question: what happens if you play a Band of Misfits or Overlord as Encampment then fail to reveal Gold/Plunder? By my reading, it stops being an Encampment the moment it's set aside so won't be returned anywhere even if BoM/Overlord is in the supply?


http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Encampment - last sentence of the "Secret History".

I think it's the same issue as with BoM as Fortress when it gets trashed - although it becomes BoM the moment it goes to trash, it still gets back to your hand.
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Jorge
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Re: Failing to return an Encampment
clivej wrote:
Interesting question. Though it's one the Dominion Strategy wiki page has already dealt with: yes, it's set aside until the end of the game, then returns to your deck before final scoring.
When did that wild phrase appear, I had checked the page at least thrice before posting. shake Thank you!

clivej wrote:
A related question: what happens if you play a Band of Misfits or Overlord as Encampment then fail to reveal Gold/Plunder? By my reading, it stops being an Encampment the moment it's set aside so won't be returned anywhere even if BoM/Overlord is in the supply?
Well, when set aside it does leave play, so BoM (emulating Encampment) becomes again BoM, that's why you return it to the BoM supply pile and not the Encampment pile. Even if it leaves play, the card will still try to return itself to the supply based on the action of "setting it aside and returning it to the supply". It's a very similar case to trashing BoM when emulating a Fortress:

Note that when Band of Misfits is discarded or trashed from play, doing so activates the when-discarded or when-trashed abilities of the card it was imitating, even though once you discard or trash it the card is back to being a Band of Misfits again. It is the act of "trashing a Fortress" or "discarding a Hermit from play" that triggers those abilities, even if the card that actually gets discarded or trashed is no longer a Hermit or Fortress after the act of trashing or discarding is completed.


Based on the secret history, it seems that the "set aside" clause was added in order to specifically make BoM and Overlord stop emulating Encampment and revert to becoming BoM/Overlord, before returning them to the supply. Else, we would return the cards to the Encampment pile.

So, the sequence is the following:

1. Play Band of Misfits. Choose Encampment.
2. Play "Encampment". +2 Cards, +2 Actions.
3. Do not reveal Gold/Plunder.
4. "Encampment" is set aside and will return itself to the supply at the end of the cleanup (to the Encampment pile, of course).
5. "Encampment" is thus set aside. It now stops being an Encampment and becomes Band of Misfits again.
6. Still following the effect of step (4), Band of Misfits returns itself to the supply. Since it's now a BoM, it returns itself to the BoM pile and not the Encampment pile. Step (4) reads "return to the supply" and not "return to the Encampment pile", so BoM returns itself to where it came from.

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Clive Jones

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Hmm. If we have a "lose track" rule, and a card stopping being what it is and starts being something else doesn't cause effects to lose track of it, I don't know what should! (-8
 
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Jorge
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clivej wrote:
Hmm. If we have a "lose track" rule, and a card stopping being what it is and starts being something else doesn't cause effects to lose track of it, I don't know what should! (-8
From my understanding, the card does not lose track of itself, as no other effect (apart from the same card) moves itself.

* In rare circumstances an effect may try to move a card that is not where that effect expects the card to be. In those cases the card does not move - the effect has "lost track" of the card.
* Cards do not lose track of cards that they move, only cards that other cards move.


Here, we have a single card, "Encampment" that is trying to move itself. When it is set aside, it reverts to a BoM, but the act of "set aside & return" is still there. Nobody else has moved the now-BoM, so the card has not lost track of itself.

However, if you play Procession on Band of Misfits, emulating an Encampment (twice) then Procession trashes the "Encampment", which will revert to being a BoM in the trash (thus you'll gain a $6 card). Then, the now-BoM will try to set itself aside and return itself to the BoM pile but it will fail, because it has been moved by another card: Procession. Similarly, if after setting "Encampment" aside (now BoM) you play an action card stating "Nuclear Holocaust: Trash all cards that you have set aside", then the now-BoM will lose track of itself and won't be able to return itself to the supply as it will have been trashed by another card: Nuclear Holocaust.

Nevertheless, in the original case, there is no other card that moves the "Encampment" (or BoM, if you like).
 
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Donald X.
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Picon wrote:
Suppose I get an Encampment from the Black Market (the official ruling to handle split piles is do whatever you want). I play the Encampment, I don't reveal a Gold/Plunder, I set it aside but there's no supply.

I assume that it just stays aside for the whole game (on the principle of "do as much as possible") but it returns to my deck for final scoring (Vineyards, Gardens, Wall, Wolf Den, etc), as I failed to return it to the supply. Is this the case?

Correct.
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Donald X.
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clivej wrote:
A related question: what happens if you play a Band of Misfits or Overlord as Encampment then fail to reveal Gold/Plunder? By my reading, it stops being an Encampment the moment it's set aside so won't be returned anywhere even if BoM/Overlord is in the supply?

The Band of Misfits / Overlord does get returned (to its own pile). That was already set up to happen.
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Donald X.
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Picon wrote:
Based on the secret history, it seems that the "set aside" clause was added in order to specifically make BoM and Overlord stop emulating Encampment and revert to becoming BoM/Overlord, before returning them to the supply. Else, we would return the cards to the Encampment pile. :what:

That's part of it; also, having the Encampment sitting there is nice for tracking your Actions.
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