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Subject: Does one actually LOSE? rss

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J P
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So, I just had a thought. Is it possible to actually lose the game? I was thinking on the fact that my group wins about 75% of the time. Many of those involve a fair amount of dying, but the game finishes.

The other 25% we just give up because the game is taking forever and we've died a lot more than usual. BUT. that's not a loss as much as a resignation.

With the exception of Azathoth, who causes a loss upon entering the world, most if not all of the GOOs just make you solve a fourth mystery. So how does one actually lose the game?
 
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Krzysiek Domański
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thatthing1999 wrote:
most if not all of the GOOs just make you solve a fourth mystery. So how does one actually lose the game?
Most if not all GOOs give you an incredibly short time to complete the "fourth" mystery (along with any regular mysteries you might be missing) before you inevitably lose.
Check the whole GOO's backside, each GOO gives detailed information about how can you lose the game.

I have a hunch: I think you were erroneously replacing eliminated investigators - the ones that were defeated after GOO woke up.
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Donagh Molloy
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thatthing1999 wrote:
So, I just had a thought. Is it possible to actually lose the game? I was thinking on the fact that my group wins about 75% of the time. Many of those involve a fair amount of dying, but the game finishes.

The other 25% we just give up because the game is taking forever and we've died a lot more than usual. BUT. that's not a loss as much as a resignation.

With the exception of Azathoth, who causes a loss upon entering the world, most if not all of the GOOs just make you solve a fourth mystery. So how does one actually lose the game?


Are bringing the doom track down by one each time an investigator dies.
If not you are probably play some other rule incorrectly
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Kārlis Jēriņš
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I do believe I've only ever won 2 times out of my over 15 plays - and I'm mostly playing by the rules*. So it's very much possible to lose.

* I do two things differently than the rules say. I give everyone 3 investigators to pick from, and we give our encounter cards to the next or previous player to read aloud to us, and make the necessary choices during encounters without knowing what the effects will be.
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Jan Probst
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Aos generally unlock a loss condition for you when awakening, often this is some additional "virtual" pseudo-doom, sometimes they just grind you dead with some damage mechanic, etc.
Some of these can be pretty swift and brutal, Yog for instance may well end you during his wakeup resolution if the board state is bad.

Running out of time (ie Mythos cards) also kills you; if you're playing heavy development/control this is in fact a meaningful barrier you might often run close to.


That said, yes, the game is eminently winnable with some experience.
I suspect a lot of the doom and gloom one often hears comes from Arkham folks who randomize things they shouldn't.
 
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Jamie
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I have found that with the newer GOOs I have played, namely Syzygy and Nephren-Ka, that doom just does not decrease enough. I rarely ever lose anymore, especially if I draw a prelude that provides an adventure which makes solving mysteries easier.
 
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Xelto G
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A lot depends on your play style and which expansions you play with. A skilled group, with base game only, should have an 80+% win rate. Throw in Forsaken Lore, and that win rate will drop to the 50% area.

If you're still winning at a high rate, double-check the rules for something you overlooked. If you don't find anything, add in a few extra starting gates, out a starting rumor, take the easy mythos cards out, or buy Forsaken Lore, to make the game harder.
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Stephen McHale
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Considering that this is one my favorite games ever, that I don't get to play enough, if you are spending time playing Eldritch Horror then you are a winner.
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J P
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Actually. the only GOO we've awoken was Yig and Syzygy, both only once. No one died after those awakenings, and we won both handily. So we've never needed to start a character after an awakening. The fact that we CAN'T is encouraging, though.

I think I see my problem though. THe other 25% where we give up, is usually because we haven't solved a mystery by the time doom hits zero. When that happens we figure we should just quit rather than keep going for hours more when stuff gets harder. I guess we've never just played till the bitter end.

Thanks for the answers!
 
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Jan Probst
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thatthing1999 wrote:
I think I see my problem though. THe other 25% where we give up, is usually because we haven't solved a mystery by the time doom hits zero. When that happens we figure we should just quit rather than keep going for hours more when stuff gets harder. I guess we've never just played till the bitter end.

Never stop fighting! arrrh
 
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chris saman
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I lose. And lose often. Haven't played in a long time, but with about 17 plays with 2 and 4 people, I've won 4 games. It soul crushing when you lose, but exhilarating when you win. Need to pay more often.
 
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Aaron Velox
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Everyone loses in a Lovecraft game. You'll think you won... but humanity is already doomed to extinction eventually by the Great Old Ones.
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Krzysiek Domański
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thatthing1999 wrote:
Actually. the only GOO we've awoken was Yig and Syzygy, both only once.
These are the only two that don't eliminate investigators, so (accidentally?) you played correctly (in regards to this matter).
 
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X X
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How can you beat Syzygy without awakening? Or did you just play Syzygy once?
 
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J P
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We've played Syzygy twice: once when we gave up due to time constraints (doom = 0 and no mysteries solved) and the other when we beat it. For the record, I don't think it's possible to win without awakening Syzygy - if I remember correctly he comes out after you solve two mysteries, but 3 are still required to win.

Lest anyone think I haven't played enough, I think my crew and I have surpassed the 25-play mark. With the exception of the elder things and Hastur (haven't tried that yet!) we've played every GOO at least twice, and some of them thrice!

Believe me, I'm plenty relieved to know that one can actually lose. I really just have to stop starting games at 11pm.
 
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Xelto G
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thatthing1999 wrote:
We've played Syzygy twice: once when we gave up due to time constraints (doom = 0 and no mysteries solved) and the other when we beat it. For the record, I don't think it's possible to win without awakening Syzygy - if I remember correctly he comes out after you solve two mysteries, but 3 are still required to win.

Nope. The only one you need to win agains Syzygy is the final one. It's just a redacted lot easier if you solve the "prequel" mysteries.
 
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Scott Dockery
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thatthing1999 wrote:
We've played Syzygy twice: once when we gave up due to time constraints (doom = 0 and no mysteries solved)


Well, that's one loss right there. Syzygy doesn't awaken at Doom Zero like most AOs; you just lose immediately at that point.
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Mark L
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Try out the Revised Reference Cards if you feel the game is too easy. It really makes things much harder (if you're playing 4p).
 
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Arthur Peterson
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I've had the game since release and we just won our first game last week. Anyone who wins 75% of the time is playing some rules wrong.
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Usually when people say this, it's due to rules error. There are tons of easy mistakes one can make. I won so easily on my first game but I let all my stats add up together from every item. Also, base game without forsaken lore is significantly easier as the penalties for failing a test are often not that bad and the newer mysteries are sometimes just brutal.

Other small things to try: don't read all the text on a card, just up to the attribute test required or make a decision to resolve fail/pass first before reading ahead. You can also try using random investigators or have a set turn order each turn. Use odd number of investigators or the revised references.
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J P
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I guess I'll have to look at that rulebook again. Mayhaps there are lots of rules I'm getting wrong. We ARE only adding up bonuses from one weapon and the allies, so far as I know.
 
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thatthing1999 wrote:
Many of those involve a fair amount of dying, but the game finishes.


Well, no wonder you're winning! goo

Most failed games I've played involved players getting too attached to their investigators. Typically, they'll waste time trying to improve their investigator's skills, as well as not take risks and not aggressively close gates and such. They want to check out the Encounters and think they'll get bennies, but half the time, they fail a skill check and get a negative Condition that costs them time to recover from. The insidious part of the game is that there's no immediate penalty for wasting time for much of the game, then everything crashes down and nobody can do a thing about it. You win by using your time efficiently. You do not necessarily win by keeping your investigator alive.

This game is trading short-term comfort for long-term success. This includes sucking your investigators dry and leaving the corpses where others can find it. As someone who's read plenty of Lovecraft, this fits the theme perfectly.
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Jan Probst
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thatthing1999 wrote:
I guess I'll have to look at that rulebook again. Mayhaps there are lots of rules I'm getting wrong. We ARE only adding up bonuses from one weapon and the allies, so far as I know.

You only get one bonus period, regardless of source.
("bonus" however, is only the "gain +3 strength" bit and such; you can use other effects like rerolls from whatever many weapons you have)
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Drew
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Last year I played this game over 10 times between my gaming group and solo plays and we maybe won 20% of the time.
The first game my group played we steamrolled the game, but later found out we cheated by adding all the item modifiers.
 
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Jason Nopa
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Also,how many players/investigators are you using?

There's a thread somewhere discussing the difficulty changes depending on how many players you have, with some numbers being much harder than others...
 
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