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1844/1854» Forums » Rules

Subject: (1854) House rules and addendas. rss

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Evelin Auger
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I played this game twice and like it a lot!

The rules are not always clear so I read many posts here and came with these things:

1- If a Private Company or local railway certificate has not yet been sold and all players have passed in turn, another Auction Round follows immediately. The price for the first certificate (the rules say only the Außerfernbahn) is reduced by 5 G.

2- Only one tunnel may be built on each of hexes D18 and D20. If more than one is built it's impossible to put the stations of the Lokalbahn.

3- The Semmeringbahn and the Arlbergbahn Receive a 20% SD/VB share. They close when the SD/VB runs for the first time. Precision: Running for the firs time is "running a train" for the first time i.e. the second operation turn of the Cie.

4- At the beginning of an operation turn, the mail contracts are paid at the very beginning, at the same time the private pay their owners. This facilitate and fasten the playing. Nobody will forget to take it.

5- The 8 train pays the first 8 cities/villages encountered. The 8OE pays the best 8 encountered.

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James E
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For 1, there is an operating round followed by another auction round. This continues until all privates have been purchased.
 
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Evelin Auger
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Yes, this does not change. The only thing I am adding is that after the operation round, the first certificate will be 5G cheaper.
 
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Gustav W
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1. The price reduction only happens in the special case where the first private (Außerfernbahn) in the initial offer has not been bought, meaning no one has any company and thus no income.
If Außerfernbahn has been bought the price is not reduced, instead people will have more money and there will at some point be incentive to buy everything.

2. This is a fair house rule

3. The german rules actually say "Wird geschlossen, nachdem die VB/SD zum ersten Mal eine Lok gefahren hat." meaning Closes after VB/SD has run a train for the first time.
The english rules also omitted the rule about building around Wien and maybe some other small stuff

4. Yes, much easier, this is what we did when we played. Just remember to give more money to some companies if there is a phase change to phase 3/5/7.

5. This is basically what the rules say.
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Evelin Auger
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Webbe wrote:
1. The price reduction only happens in the special case where the first private (Außerfernbahn) in the initial offer has not been bought, meaning no one has any company and thus no income.
If Außerfernbahn has been bought the price is not reduced, instead people will have more money and there will at some point be incentive to buy everything.

2. This is a fair house rule

3. The german rules actually say "Wird geschlossen, nachdem die VB/SD zum ersten Mal eine Lok gefahren hat." meaning Closes after VB/SD has run a train for the first time.
The english rules also omitted the rule about building around Wien and maybe some other small stuff

4. Yes, much easier, this is what we did when we played. Just remember to give more money to some companies if there is a phase change to phase 3/5/7.

5. This is basically what the rules say.


Now I see the reason for number 1. So I will keep it the way you say. Thank you.
 
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Jimmy Okolica
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Webbe wrote:


8OE pays the best 8 cities...

5. This is basically what the rules say.


Does it? In the new Englsih Mayfair rules, that's not clear. Is it more clear in the German version (or a previous version of the rules)?
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Gustav W
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Lookout Games english rules wrote:
No stations/cities on the route may be omitted (with the exception of the 8Ox trains).

Looks clear enough IMO.

The german rules are a little bit more wordy but they basically say the same thing (to my understanding), they say "Nur mit 8Ox-Loks (Orientexpress) können Bahnhöfe ausgelassen werden, es muss jedoch mindestens ein eigener Bahnhofsmarker angefahren werden." basically meaning only 8Ox trains can omit stations and that they still have to have a station marker on the route.
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Jimmy Okolica
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Super. Thanks! That small exception left me with doubt. The additional wordiness makes me feel more comfortable playing it that way.
 
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Jimmy Okolica
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[q="Webbe"
3. The german rules actually say "Wird geschlossen, nachdem die VB/SD zum ersten Mal eine Lok gefahren hat." meaning Closes after VB/SD has run a train for the first time.
The english rules also omitted the rule about building around Wien and maybe some other small stuff
[/q]

Thanks so much for these translations. I had taken "run" to mean 1830 style "operate". Good to see text that clarifies.
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Gustav W
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Butterfly0038 wrote:

Thanks so much for these translations. I had taken "run" to mean 1830 style "operate". Good to see text that clarifies.

No problem mate!
The ambiguous word "run" was the thing that got me looking in the german rules in the first place.
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Jason Childs
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What is the English version of the special rule about tracks around Wien/Vienna? From what I understand it to be, there may be a further issue it doesn't fix, but I haven't seen an exact wording of the rule.

If the rule works like I think it does, the loophole I'm thinking of can potentially make a mess under some very specific circumstances.
 
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Evelin Auger
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Where do you find a rule like this?
 
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Gustav W
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jchilds72 wrote:
What is the English version of the special rule about tracks around Wien/Vienna? From what I understand it to be, there may be a further issue it doesn't fix, but I haven't seen an exact wording of the rule.

If the rule works like I think it does, the loophole I'm thinking of can potentially make a mess under some very specific circumstances.

If by "English version" you mean an english translation of the german rules then.

Last bullet point in the Build Track section, after "A track tile may be built in such a way that it does not connect to tracks on a neighbouring tile." it continues:
Quote:
Dies gilt nicht für die 3 markierten Felder westlich von Wien. Dort muss der Gleisanschluss nach Wien erhalten bleiben.

meaning something like: This is not true for the 3 marked hexes west of Wien. There the track connection to Wien must be maintained.


Disclaimer: I'm pretty sure I got it right but note that german is my 3rd language and I have spent the last 17 years forgetting most of it.
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Jason Childs
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I think that's it.

The edge case I'm thinking of might then apply.

Consider the following scenario :

1) Player A starts the Kaiser Franz Joseph-Bahn (Brown) at 67G/Share,

2) Player B starts the Kaiserin Elisabeth-Westbahn (Pink) at 72G/Share,

and

Player B on his/her first turn lays a #2 track tile in hex C21 such that the tight curve track segment connects C23 and B22. He/she then lays a gently curved tunnel tile in hex B22 that connects C21 to either the pre printed tight curve in what would be hex A21 or open hex B24.

Player A now has a problem (Can't lay a yellow 2 village tile as there are only 3 free hex sides remaining track can connect to. Furthermore, the only eventual way (if this scenario is "legal") for brown to operate is to wait until to phase 5 to start laying track out of a russet Wien hex.). However, Player B hasn't laid a track tile that doesn't maintain the connection to Wien. He has laid a tunnel tile, though, but he hasn't actually laid a track tile that does not maintain the connection to Wien, so the rule might not technically be being broken by pink. Hence the desire for an exact wording.

Or is there something else in the rules that prevents this from occuring?

I realize this is mainly an exercise in "rules lawyering" and that I suspect decency would win the day in most cases, but in a tournament with something at stake, it might be a different story for some players.

----

More generally -


Overall there are 4 double village hexes with only 5 accessible sides in the game (B22, E11, F2 & H16). As shown above, B22 may have an issue with tunnels. E11 can be used by red (with a straight tunnel lay there, in conjunction with a tunnel from Salzburg to the H10 off map) to bisect the board, block the customs tunnel and force all E-W traffic through Salzburg killing OE runs for all but maybe 3 companies, by red's first green OR (without sacrificing revenue). Red and blue working in co-operation can manage it by the end of OR 2 in an even more restrictive manner if the tunnel is extended with a gentle curve tunnel to Innsbruck in E9.

H16 doesn't seem to have the same level of impact on the overall game AFAICS, but F2 can block off some access to the E1 off-map (and Paris), albeit with more of an economic hit to yellow if they do it.

I'm not sure if that kind of blocking with tunnels was intended or not, but if it wasn't, some "dead end" extensions to eliminate the blank hex sides and allow a 2 village tile + tunnel in those hexes might be looked at as a remedy.
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OmNomGmr
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Webbe wrote:
meaning something like: This is not true for the 3 marked hexes west of Wien. There the track connection to Wien must be maintained.


Thanks for posting this. Will definitely be playing with that as a house rule. As a house rule, it can also be flushed out more informally (i.e. can't be blocked with a tunnel). Some games with reserve initial placement for a given company, but that probably won't work here.

Jason, thanks for posting. I wonder if these constraints are intentionally put in place by the designer or if they were not a consideration.
 
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Brian Roundhill
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jchilds72 wrote:
I realize this is mainly an exercise in "rules lawyering" and that I suspect decency would win the day in most cases, but in a tournament with something at stake, it might be a different story for some players.


You underestimate the viciousness of my group.
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Dave Berry
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jchilds72 wrote:
Consider the following scenario :

1) Player A starts the Kaiser Franz Joseph-Bahn (Brown) at 67G/Share,

2) Player B starts the Kaiserin Elisabeth-Westbahn (Pink) at 72G/Share,

Player B on his/her first turn lays a #2 track tile in hex C21 such that the tight curve track segment connects C23 and B22. He/she then lays a gently curved tunnel tile in hex B22 that connects C21 to either the pre printed tight curve in what would be hex A21 or open hex B24.

Player A now has a problem (Can't lay a yellow 2 village tile as there are only 3 free hex sides remaining track can connect to. Furthermore, the only eventual way (if this scenario is "legal") for brown to operate is to wait until to phase 5 to start laying track out of a russet Wien hex.). However, Player B hasn't laid a track tile that doesn't maintain the connection to Wien. He has laid a tunnel tile, though, but he hasn't actually laid a track tile that does not maintain the connection to Wien, so the rule might not technically be being broken by pink. Hence the desire for an exact wording.

As a minimum, I'd rule that the first tile or tunnel laid in one of these hexes must preserve the connection to Wien. That would make the above example illegal.

Quote:
Overall there are 4 double village hexes with only 5 accessible sides in the game (B22, E11, F2 & H16). As shown above, B22 may have an issue with tunnels. E11 can be used by red (with a straight tunnel lay there, in conjunction with a tunnel from Salzburg to the H10 off map) to bisect the board, block the customs tunnel and force all E-W traffic through Salzburg killing OE runs for all but maybe 3 companies, by red's first green OR (without sacrificing revenue). Red and blue working in co-operation can manage it by the end of OR 2 in an even more restrictive manner if the tunnel is extended with a gentle curve tunnel to Innsbruck in E9.

H16 doesn't seem to have the same level of impact on the overall game AFAICS, but F2 can block off some access to the E1 off-map (and Paris), albeit with more of an economic hit to yellow if they do it.

I'm not sure if that kind of blocking with tunnels was intended or not, but if it wasn't, some "dead end" extensions to eliminate the blank hex sides and allow a 2 village tile + tunnel in those hexes might be looked at as a remedy.

As you say, it isn't clear whether the design was intended to permit these tactics. The rules do seem to be generally permissive regarding where tunnels can be built, but the particular consequences in these hexes seem unexpectedly restrictive. I'm tempted to rule that tunnels may not be built in these four hexes.

Extra off-board track could be added, as you suggest, but this would allow the brown and grey city tiles to be placed with the blank side blocking key routes, which would probably be a cure worse than the disease.

Really, all these cases could have been avoided with the simple rule that tunnels can not be built in double-dot hexes. This would also have removed the oddity that you can end up with a tunnel in the same hex as a city, but only if the tunnel is laid before the upgrade to green, and not after.
 
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