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Subject: Similar to Chaos in the Old World? rss

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Jacob Fulwiler
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After watching Dice Tower's review, I came away thinking that this sounded very similar to FFG's Chaos in the Old World. Obviously the battle system is different, but am I wrong in seeing the similarities?
 
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Patrick
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I would strongly disagree with that. The only thing they really have similar is that they are both area control games with asymmetric factions from the start. After that I would say they play completely differently. Not sure what game I would really compare Cry Havoc to be closest to honestly. But I've played over 25 games of Chaos and a few of Cry Havoc now and I don't think you can really compare them very well. Just my $0.02.
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Grant Rodiek
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Bataar wrote:
After watching Dice Tower's review, I came away thinking that this sounded very similar to FFG's Chaos in the Old World. Obviously the battle system is different, but am I wrong in seeing the similarities?


One of the designers, so chiming in, but forgive the bias and such.

Hmmm. I've only played Chaos a few times, and the last time a few years ago, so I'm a bit rusty. We really liked it as a group. Need to bug Matt to bring it to game night...

IIRC, Chaos doesn't really have movement. You basically spawn on a region, fight over it? Some guys can move and such. I think that is a pretty big difference in moment to moment feel. Cry Havoc's structures, where they are, when they are built, how they are used, can change quite a bit. I think that's a really cool feature of the game.

The skills (aka omg crazy powers) change every game for every power, so I think that's really nice.

Both are about fighting. Both are conflict heavy. Both are very asymmetric. Both are weird hybrids of super trashy and fairly euro.

I think the hand management in Cry Havoc is very very different from the hand management in Cry havoc. You're managing resources more in Cry as opposed to (again, IIRC) one off powers in Chaos.

Maybe that helps.
 
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Patrick
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HerrohGrant wrote:
Bataar wrote:
After watching Dice Tower's review, I came away thinking that this sounded very similar to FFG's Chaos in the Old World. Obviously the battle system is different, but am I wrong in seeing the similarities?


One of the designers, so chiming in, but forgive the bias and such.

Hmmm. I've only played Chaos a few times, and the last time a few years ago, so I'm a bit rusty. We really liked it as a group. Need to bug Matt to bring it to game night...

IIRC, Chaos doesn't really have movement. You basically spawn on a region, fight over it? Some guys can move and such. I think that is a pretty big difference in moment to moment feel. Cry Havoc's structures, where they are, when they are built, how they are used, can change quite a bit. I think that's a really cool feature of the game.

The skills (aka omg crazy powers) change every game for every power, so I think that's really nice.

Both are about fighting. Both are conflict heavy. Both are very asymmetric. Both are weird hybrids of super trashy and fairly euro.

I think the hand management in Cry Havoc is very very different from the hand management in Cry havoc. You're managing resources more in Cry as opposed to (again, IIRC) one off powers in Chaos.

Maybe that helps.


Chaos has "summoning" so you can summon units to a region you are in or a region adjacent. However some factions have ways of quickly getting across the board if need be. I completely agree with the weird hybrid statement, and I think you could draw a comparison between the factions in chaos having unique powers based on their decks with the unique powers each faction in cry havoc can get in terms of skills to use per game. In both games each faction has skills that may just never be used (never drawn in Chaos vs not picked at the start of cry havoc).

Grant I think you nailed the biggest difference in terms of hand management. The decks for the games are used for VERY different things IMO and that's where the large difference in game feel comes into play.



 
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Grant Rodiek
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Blackspy07 wrote:
HerrohGrant wrote:
Bataar wrote:
After watching Dice Tower's review, I came away thinking that this sounded very similar to FFG's Chaos in the Old World. Obviously the battle system is different, but am I wrong in seeing the similarities?


One of the designers, so chiming in, but forgive the bias and such.

Hmmm. I've only played Chaos a few times, and the last time a few years ago, so I'm a bit rusty. We really liked it as a group. Need to bug Matt to bring it to game night...

IIRC, Chaos doesn't really have movement. You basically spawn on a region, fight over it? Some guys can move and such. I think that is a pretty big difference in moment to moment feel. Cry Havoc's structures, where they are, when they are built, how they are used, can change quite a bit. I think that's a really cool feature of the game.

The skills (aka omg crazy powers) change every game for every power, so I think that's really nice.

Both are about fighting. Both are conflict heavy. Both are very asymmetric. Both are weird hybrids of super trashy and fairly euro.

I think the hand management in Cry Havoc is very very different from the hand management in Cry havoc. You're managing resources more in Cry as opposed to (again, IIRC) one off powers in Chaos.

Maybe that helps.


Chaos has "summoning" so you can summon units to a region you are in or a region adjacent. However some factions have ways of quickly getting across the board if need be. I completely agree with the weird hybrid statement, and I think you could draw a comparison between the factions in chaos having unique powers based on their decks with the unique powers each faction in cry havoc can get in terms of skills to use per game. In both games each faction has skills that may just never be used (never drawn in Chaos vs not picked at the start of cry havoc).

Grant I think you nailed the biggest difference in terms of hand management. The decks for the games are used for VERY different things IMO and that's where the large difference in game feel comes into play.





The card/resource management is a big deal and it's the heart of the game. It is, in fact, the oldest mechanism in the game. It's evolved of course, but the choice of "Do I use this card for:"
1. War
2. Mobility
3. Construction
4. Recruitment

Is super fundamental. It's a fun, Euro constraint that makes decisions really tight.

It's a big deal I think.
 
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Patrick
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HerrohGrant wrote:
Blackspy07 wrote:
HerrohGrant wrote:
Bataar wrote:
After watching Dice Tower's review, I came away thinking that this sounded very similar to FFG's Chaos in the Old World. Obviously the battle system is different, but am I wrong in seeing the similarities?


One of the designers, so chiming in, but forgive the bias and such.

Hmmm. I've only played Chaos a few times, and the last time a few years ago, so I'm a bit rusty. We really liked it as a group. Need to bug Matt to bring it to game night...

IIRC, Chaos doesn't really have movement. You basically spawn on a region, fight over it? Some guys can move and such. I think that is a pretty big difference in moment to moment feel. Cry Havoc's structures, where they are, when they are built, how they are used, can change quite a bit. I think that's a really cool feature of the game.

The skills (aka omg crazy powers) change every game for every power, so I think that's really nice.

Both are about fighting. Both are conflict heavy. Both are very asymmetric. Both are weird hybrids of super trashy and fairly euro.

I think the hand management in Cry Havoc is very very different from the hand management in Cry havoc. You're managing resources more in Cry as opposed to (again, IIRC) one off powers in Chaos.

Maybe that helps.


Chaos has "summoning" so you can summon units to a region you are in or a region adjacent. However some factions have ways of quickly getting across the board if need be. I completely agree with the weird hybrid statement, and I think you could draw a comparison between the factions in chaos having unique powers based on their decks with the unique powers each faction in cry havoc can get in terms of skills to use per game. In both games each faction has skills that may just never be used (never drawn in Chaos vs not picked at the start of cry havoc).

Grant I think you nailed the biggest difference in terms of hand management. The decks for the games are used for VERY different things IMO and that's where the large difference in game feel comes into play.





The card/resource management is a big deal and it's the heart of the game. It is, in fact, the oldest mechanism in the game. It's evolved of course, but the choice of "Do I use this card for:"
1. War
2. Mobility
3. Construction
4. Recruitment

Is super fundamental. It's a fun, Euro constraint that makes decisions really tight.

It's a big deal I think.


Yep I would agree and that is where the games differ to answer the original question. I should add that I enjoy both games and am glad they are as different feeling as they are. Variety is always nice!
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Grant Rodiek
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For sure. I'm a big fan of Cry (duh), Chaos. I like parts of Kemet, but it wasn't quite for me. Cyclades is pretty slick. Looking forward to Inis. I hear mostly good things about Blood Rage (haven't played, friends like it), and I plan to back Rising Sun (preferred theme and direction for it).

This is sorta my sweet spot for games and I've started working on a new Euro/war game because frankly, I want more of them!

Been really exciting to see folks appreciate Cry Havoc.
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Patrick
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Area control games are my favorite genre by far! Why I had to pick up Cry Havoc at Gencon when I heard about it. I would love to hear more about a future one when you have something to share. Keep up the good work!
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Moshe Saricov
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Grant, have you had a chance to try cthulhu wars?
 
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Grant Rodiek
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juggernaut1 wrote:
Grant, have you had a chance to try cthulhu wars?


I haven't. I don't know much about it and it is a KS game. I don't back a *ton* of KS projects these days...usually just 1-3 per year...and it looked fairly expensive. Haven't heard many of my friends or peers talk about it, so it sorta fell off my radar.

Any good? Do you like it? What do you like about it?
 
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Moshe Saricov
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HerrohGrant wrote:
juggernaut1 wrote:
Grant, have you had a chance to try cthulhu wars?


I haven't. I don't know much about it and it is a KS game. I don't back a *ton* of KS projects these days...usually just 1-3 per year...and it looked fairly expensive. Haven't heard many of my friends or peers talk about it, so it sorta fell off my radar.

Any good? Do you like it? What do you like about it?


I absolutly love it, and to be a little more specific:

1) The game is very asymetric, moreso than any other game I have seen (and I have seen my fair share), and it does this in a very themetic way. When you play great cthulhu, you actually feel all powerful and destructive god of the sea, same is true of the other factions.

2) the board is open, each faction has abilities that help them move somewhat freely across the map, and the abilities are all diffrent in feel and mechanic. So you always have interesting options on your turn.

3)multiple factions (currently 8), with multiple maps to play on (currently 5) enhances replyability. I played the base game with the same 4 factions on the earth map maybe 50 times, and probably over 50 more games since I got the rest of the expansions and maps.

4) 4 player games last about 90 min.

These are some of the main reasons I'm so enthused about it, and recommand you give it a try, you said you like war games, I believe you will enjoy it.

by the way, I pre-ordered cry havoc, and really look toward playing it.
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Grant Rodiek
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juggernaut1 wrote:
HerrohGrant wrote:
juggernaut1 wrote:
Grant, have you had a chance to try cthulhu wars?


I haven't. I don't know much about it and it is a KS game. I don't back a *ton* of KS projects these days...usually just 1-3 per year...and it looked fairly expensive. Haven't heard many of my friends or peers talk about it, so it sorta fell off my radar.

Any good? Do you like it? What do you like about it?


I absolutly love it, and to be a little more specific:

1) The game is very asymetric, moreso than any other game I have seen (and I have seen my fair share), and it does this in a very themetic way. When you play great cthulhu, you actually feel all powerful and destructive god of the sea, same is true of the other factions.

2) the board is open, each faction has abilities that help them move somewhat freely across the map, and the abilities are all diffrent in feel and mechanic. So you always have interesting options on your turn.

3)multiple factions (currently 8), with multiple maps to play on (currently 5) enhances replyability. I played the base game with the same 4 factions on the earth map maybe 50 times, and probably over 50 more games since I got the rest of the expansions and maps.

4) 4 player games last about 90 min.

These are some of the main reasons I'm so enthused about it, and recommand you give it a try, you said you like war games, I believe you will enjoy it.

by the way, I pre-ordered cry havoc, and really look toward playing it.


Nice, thanks for sharing. I'll toss it on my wish list.
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Dustin Boatman
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Chaos in the Old World is one of my favorite games, and I am enjoying this one a lot as well. I don't think they are very similar though. The only thing similar, and I guess it is a big thing, is that in a 4 player game one faction HAS to be kept in check by the other players or they win easily. Like Khorne in CitOW, the Trog faction will literally run away with a 4 player game if left unchecked. Just a few days ago I played a 4 player game where the other players just kind of did their own thing attacking each other and left the Trogs alone and I watched as the Trog player scored over 20 points in one round. And that is even halving the crystals for scoring. Once I made it clear that if we didn't jump on Trog territories we might as well quit now they all came around and we got the player in check. I ended up second place with 53 points with the machines and the Trog player won with 57. It was actually tied 49-49 but the promo quest cards won it for the Trog player. Granted, I have played the game about 7 times now and the Trog player was brand new kind of shows you the power of the Trogs in a 4 player game. I am fine with one faction having to be kept in check, but if that bothers you in Chaos, it definitely will in Cry Havoc.
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Grant Rodiek
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Pathosis wrote:
Chaos in the Old World is one of my favorite games, and I am enjoying this one a lot as well. I don't think they are very similar though. The only thing similar, and I guess it is a big thing, is that in a 4 player game one faction HAS to be kept in check by the other players or they win easily. Like Khorne in CitOW, the Trog faction will literally run away with a 4 player game if left unchecked. Just a few days ago I played a 4 player game where the other players just kind of did their own thing attacking each other and left the Trogs alone and I watched as the Trog player scored over 20 points in one round. And that is even halving the crystals for scoring. Once I made it clear that if we didn't jump on Trog territories we might as well quit now they all came around and we got the player in check. I ended up second place with 53 points with the machines and the Trog player won with 57. It was actually tied 49-49 but the promo quest cards won it for the Trog player. Granted, I have played the game about 7 times now and the Trog player was brand new kind of shows you the power of the Trogs in a 4 player game. I am fine with one faction having to be kept in check, but if that bothers you in Chaos, it definitely will in Cry Havoc.


So, if I can tweak this, all factions need to be kept in check. Trogs have the most obvious starting point in 4 player especially, so folks point to them a lot. But, if you let the pilgrim player extract and use their skill, they'll be scoring HUGE points. If you let the humans airfield and take control tokens left and right, they'll be scoring huge points. If you let the machines build their death star, they'll take the entire planet in just a few turns.

The Trogs are the obvious one, but every faction has...basically...a way to cheat and go for it. Don't let anyone get too comfortable. We designed the map such that you can always poke anyone, so do that!
 
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