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Subject: Worthy of the hype? rss

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Alex Hammond
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I'm relatively new to board gaming, picking up the hobby a couple of years ago - taking the place of video gaming. I guess it's coming from playing video games I gravitated towards the bigger, heavier end of board gaming - looking for an epic engrossing experience.

Like many, I got easily caught in the hype radiating on Scythe. I didn't back it (KS isn't something I've plunged into yet) - but I kept an eye out for the retail, eager to add it to my rapidly growing collection.

On the outset it offered everything I was looking for - its a big game, I do love a big sprawling board. Lots of decisions - I'm big into Euro games, and love having lots of moving pieces and braining burning decisions. And the theme - like most, this just looked a cut above everything else. The first 'blockbuster' board game? Maybe - it certainly has helped widened the hobby outside of the hardcore contingent.

And, like all hype - it was quickly punctured when the game started getting mass plays. Everything I was hoping it to be, was being declared as underwhelming. The combat was minimal, the game wasn't very interactive and it played like solo game with other people getting in your way a bit. I was looking for tense combat, heavy interaction and a resource management element that rewarded strategic plays.

So, this passed Tuesday - I took my newly purchased copy to my local, fairly large gaming group - with a group of 4 (5 with me) players new to the game lined up to play. When I posted on the Facebook group I would be taking the game, the 4 other spaces filled in less than an hour - which is a rare occurrence. When we got together, it was clear the other guys had noticed the hype and were excited to get going.

Earlier in the day, I set the game up and watched the How Its Played video on Youtube (recommended) and, at first a little overwhelming - it was very easy to follow.

I was a little worried - having taught games I only know vaguely, that it is one thing learning the basics and game flow - not being able to quickly answer a question on a minor can result in time, and patience wasted looking things up - killing the mood. I was worried that even though the basic flow of Scythe seemed easy, I would need to know all the ins and out to fully run an nice smooth game. However, after a 20 or so minute run through with the other players, pretty much everything was covered.

Here come the big first plus for Scythe - its a big game, lots of moving parts and decisions - but super simple to teach. Its not exactly quick to teach - but due to the way the game is laid out, I found that just by explain the flow of the game I covered all the rules. A few small things helped - the player aid and quick reference are great, iconography intuitive and best of all, the special power for each faction - breaks a rule, emphasising to the others the run. For example - one faction can cross water where the other can't - so whenever this player did this, it reminded us we couldn't.

However - it was while teaching the game and into the first couple of turns the first niggling worry crept in; are we going to spend a lot of time doing our own thing, collecting resources and building up rather than having an interactive gaming experience.

As the first round moved into the second, this worry was made really apparent. We all took the same actions each time and, personally I found I wasn't doing very much at all. Going into the 3-4 round it was still a little slow and I seriously worried everyone was a bit bored and underwhelmed. People were silent taking there actions and moving on quick. We were just moving bits of wood around a table achieving very little. I then - really thought to myself the game was a dud. I love Euro games - and resource management - but I felt the other wanted a more aggressive game and to get stuck into the combat side and there was no real sign of that happening.

But then suddenly - the player to my right built his 4 mech (a character build that really ramps up the way you move around and how combat works) and placed his first star (place stars when you unlock a specific requirement, play 6 and the game ends) and he was quickly dominating the board, and the power and popularity trackers. We then all realised that he was going to run away with the game if we all didn't start doing more, and thats exactly what we did. The tempo of the game then went from slow to rapid fire - all players doing something significant each turn, rather than just something the could do.

There is both a plus and minus for the game here. The game has a very slow start that forces players to understand the game before it takes off. Although you have the entire board and all the options available to you, you can only actually do a could of things. Next turn a couple more. It wasn't for me until about turns 4-5 that I felt I could do what I wanted and employe a strategy I felt worked. For new players - both to the game and genre, this is great. It was an easy start. However, for more hardcore players I can see this makes the game a little underwhelming. There is a case I guess after a few plays you can get stuck into your strategy quicker - but after just one play I can't confirm this yet.

So, when the game play got going - was it good?

Yes. But it was vastly different to what I expected. This is a dense euro, with lots of interesting options. I think there was a point where I felt there were too many options - and to figure out the next best move really took some though, but instead I was doing what was easiest. Maybe 2-3 turns towards the end I had an idea of how I would grab for points, but before I could do it the game ended. Rather than leave me underwhelmed - I just wanted to play again, knowing what I know, I play with a lot more thought behind my actions.

Combat was much less impactive than I thought, but it wasn't bad. I was expecting and epic battle that might change how the game was playing out. Rather, they were simple affairs that only gave each of us a slight advantage/disadvantage. Again, in hindsight there are an opportunity for a player to make a well timed attack to have a bigger impact than we saw, but we were sort of doing things because we could rather than because of any grand strategies. For example - I can see how a well timed attack early on can hinder an opponents production and really slow them down when they are slow to be producing the resources they need.

Our game finished, like all the game when the 6th star was placed. In our case, one player placed 3 stars in one go - ending the game at just the right time, although a little abruptly. It was no coincidence that he also won, and was also one of the more experienced gamers generally - he developed a plan early and started executing it before all of us. He finished the game with about 70 points, us all on 20-40. There may have been some overviews in the rules towards the end that skewed the result, but generally speaking he was the more aggressive player - getting 4 mechs build quick and gaining areas fast, with only a couple of battles that didn't really hit his popularity hard. He was also the first player to hit the Factory and take the extra action card - really ramping his game up. Maybe another turn we could have collectively ganged up on him, lowering our score, but his too - maybe lessening the gap - and I think he may have noticed this and ended the game on his terms before we could interject.

Anyway, this is a review - so, is it worthy of the hype.

As a complete package it is. It really is a 'blockbuster' game, maybe a flagship of the hobby. There are other big games - but this is the more complete package. Great design, them and art (I think it goes without saying the art and presentation is incredible). You can, with the same game - entice people new to the hobby, or people totally alien to it, and you can satisfy hardcore gamers.

I think the most redeeming quality here, and why I think it lives unto the hype is just how eager I am to play again with other who have played before - to really get stuck into what this game has to offer. Blood Rage, Forbidden Stars and a couple of other give me the same vibe - game that offer a decent amount of depth but relatively simple.

Will I still be playing this next year? Totally.
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Frank Hamrick
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A very interesting review with a twist at the end. I never quite knew which way you were headed until the very end, so you kept my attention.

I will only take exception with one part of the review - and my 'exception' is actually a problem I have with many who (unlike you) don't care for Sythe or other games, and so disdain it by referring 'hype' surrounding the game. Your use of the word "hype" brought this back to mind. For example, you said: "Like many, I got easily caught in the hype radiating on Scythe." And later, 'And, like all hype..."

Here's my thought: The actual definition of the noun (not verb, but noun) 'hype' (Dictionary.com) is as follows:
1. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
2. an ingenious or questionable claim, method, etc., used in advertising, promotion, or publicity to intensify the effect.
3. a swindle, deception, or trick.

#1 is debatable. I personally don't think the publishers 'exaggerated' what the game was -
#2 & #3 both would say the publisher and others used questionable, deceptive trickery to swindle people out of money, etc.

Now, I'm not saying you meant any of this. I just think our hobby uses that word far too loosely. When a lot of people are excited about a release and are making a lot of noise, we call it 'hype.' That's not hype at all. It just means a lot of people are excited about the game! Nothing wrong with that.

So, this little 'criticism' is really not meant for you, it's just something I've been wanting to say for a long time about the mis-use (IMO) of "hype." Sure, there was a lot of talk and excitement about the game before an after it was released, but that's not 'hype.' No trickery, no swindling, and no questionable claims were made by Jamey or his company.

Now - back to your report - I thought it was excellent. (I hope I'm not hyping your report.)
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Dan Nunuyerbiznez
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Frank Hamrick wrote:
The actual definition of the noun (not verb, but noun) 'hype' (Dictionary.com) is as follows:
1. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
2. an ingenious or questionable claim, method, etc., used in advertising, promotion, or publicity to intensify the effect.
3. a swindle, deception, or trick.

When a lot of people are excited about a release and are making a lot of noise, we call it 'hype.' That's not hype at all. It just means a lot of people are excited about the game! Nothing wrong with that.


The highlighted section above fits perfectly the #1 definition you give.
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Morten Monrad Pedersen
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Thank you for the review. The way you told it as a story of your experience with the game made it refreshingly different from other reviews (including my own).
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Christophe Jannin
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Great review and great writing.

As it was your first game, you couldn't have notice the best thing about Scythe : every game will play differently, every game will feel different.
I've played games where no one went for the factory, I've seen games won without Mechs, or building or recrut. Or even without combat.

so much real replayability in this game
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Great Review!
Alexandjef wrote:
We all took the same actions each time and, personally I found I wasn't doing very much at all. Going into the 3-4 round it was still a little slow and I seriously worried everyone was a bit bored and underwhelmed. People were silent taking there actions and moving on quick. We were just moving bits of wood around a table achieving very little.

Alexandjef wrote:
The tempo of the game then went from slow to rapid fire - all players doing something significant each turn, rather than just something the could do.
That perfectly mirrors my first experience with Scythe!

Alexandjef wrote:
The game has a very slow start that forces players to understand the game before it takes off. [...] It wasn't for me until about turns 4-5 that I felt I could do what I wanted and employe a strategy I felt worked.
Yup. Exactly how I felt about it. I've already wondered if it wouldn't be better if every player started with a mech.

I enjoy the game and I'm pleased that even losing an important combat isn't crippling and feels more like a temporary setback that you can quickly recover from.

But it really feels to me that the opening phase of the game takes too long, with almost no middle-phase, as everyone suddenly starts rushing into the end game, scoring stars all over the place. So, the time when the game's at its most enjoyable and interesting point, is way too short.

I definitely need to play a couple more games, though, to be sure if it's really an issue. I assume it's not since with experienced players, the starting phase should be over much more quickly, but a little doubt remains.
 
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Frank Hamrick
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DnaDan56 wrote:
Frank Hamrick wrote:
The actual definition of the noun (not verb, but noun) 'hype' (Dictionary.com) is as follows:
1. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
2. an ingenious or questionable claim, method, etc., used in advertising, promotion, or publicity to intensify the effect.
3. a swindle, deception, or trick.

When a lot of people are excited about a release and are making a lot of noise, we call it 'hype.' That's not hype at all. It just means a lot of people are excited about the game! Nothing wrong with that.


The highlighted section above fits perfectly the #1 definition you give.


Not sure I understand your point. If you're saying that it is 'hype' because of def. # 1, note the word "exaggerated." That means 'stretching the truth.' I don't think the publishers or those who love the game are guilty of such deception (which is what 'hype' is). To say something was 'hyped' is to say that what it is has been deceivingly presented ('exaggerated'). Thus, to say it is hyped is to accuse users and sellers of being dishonest. I take exception to that. I don't think that's what people mean when they use the word, thus my point - 'hype' is mis-used. A better phrase would be to say 'this game has gotten a lot of positive buzz from the community.' Or, a lot of people 'are really excited about this game.' That's true. But hype carries the idea of deliberate exaggeration, questionable claims, swindling, deception, and trickery - check the dictionary.
(Perhaps I misunderstood your response. If so, I need to be corrected.)
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Randal Divinski
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Frank Hamrick wrote:
{SNIP}a problem I have with many who (unlike you) don't care for Sythe or other games, and so disdain it by referring 'hype' surrounding the game. Your use of the word "hype" brought this back to mind. For example, you said: "Like many, I got easily caught in the hype radiating on Scythe." And later, 'And, like all hype..."

Here's my thought: The actual definition of the noun (not verb, but noun) 'hype' (Dictionary.com) is as follows:
1. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
2. an ingenious or questionable claim, method, etc., used in advertising, promotion, or publicity to intensify the effect.
3. a swindle, deception, or trick.{SNIP}

So, this little 'criticism' is really not meant for you, it's just something I've been wanting to say for a long time about the mis-use (IMO) of "hype." Sure, there was a lot of talk and excitement about the game before an after it was released, but that's not 'hype.' No trickery, no swindling, and no questionable claims were made by Jamey or his company.

Might I suggest "Hoopla" - talk or writing that is designed to get people excited about and interested in something - which is a bit more neutral as to whether it is good or bad and as to who is responsible for it.
 
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Frank Hamrick
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randiv wrote:
Frank Hamrick wrote:
{SNIP}a problem I have with many who (unlike you) don't care for Sythe or other games, and so disdain it by referring 'hype' surrounding the game. Your use of the word "hype" brought this back to mind. For example, you said: "Like many, I got easily caught in the hype radiating on Scythe." And later, 'And, like all hype..."

Here's my thought: The actual definition of the noun (not verb, but noun) 'hype' (Dictionary.com) is as follows:
1. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
2. an ingenious or questionable claim, method, etc., used in advertising, promotion, or publicity to intensify the effect.
3. a swindle, deception, or trick.{SNIP}

So, this little 'criticism' is really not meant for you, it's just something I've been wanting to say for a long time about the mis-use (IMO) of "hype." Sure, there was a lot of talk and excitement about the game before an after it was released, but that's not 'hype.' No trickery, no swindling, and no questionable claims were made by Jamey or his company.

Might I suggest "Hoopla" - talk or writing that is designed to get people excited about and interested in something - which is a bit more neutral as to whether it is good or bad and as to who is responsible for it.


I can see that, but "hoopla" is surrounded by the other very negative terms, uggesting that 'hoopla' is a part of the exaggerating, questionable, swindling, deception. And, if you check out the definition of hoopla, you will see that one of the three definitions of "Hoopla" is: "speech or writing intended to mislead or to obscure an issue" (Dictionary.com). So the whole thought behind "hype" is deliberate intent to deceive.
 
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Alex Hammond
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I guess I use the word 'hype' because there is a danger of there being a big disparity between the reality of the playing the game and what people were hoping for. In this sense I was questioning if they actual experience matched up with what I, and hopefully other gamers were expecting.

I think the thing I was most interested in finding out playing this game was if it was actually worth of all the hype around it.

I would say - yes, it was worth of the hype but for many different reasons than I though.
 
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Richard Dewsbery
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I'd agree with Alex's use of the word "hype". There was lots of it pre-release, and quite a few players saying that after their first game following release that the game had failed to live up to it.

Me, I backed it because of that hype. But I largely ignored posts about what the game was, or what it was supposed to be, or what it might be, and just waiting for it to arrive.

When it did arrive, I was super-impressed by the box and its contents. Lots of gorgeous components, a great board and illustrations, really clear rules.

Did the gameplay live up to the hype? Nope. Not at first. It was pretty good, but hardly the second coming. But I played it again. And again. And again. And the fact that I WANT to play it over and over makes me think that it does indeed live up to that hype. And I'd agree with Alex in another regard - it might not be the game that I or others expected, but it's an excellent game.
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Frank Hamrick
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RDewsbery wrote:
I'd agree with Alex's use of the word "hype". There was lots of it pre-release, and quite a few players saying that after their first game following release that the game had failed to live up to it.

Me, I backed it because of that hype. But I largely ignored posts about what the game was, or what it was supposed to be, or what it might be, and just waiting for it to arrive.

When it did arrive, I was super-impressed by the box and its contents. Lots of gorgeous components, a great board and illustrations, really clear rules.

Did the gameplay live up to the hype? Nope. Not at first. It was pretty good, but hardly the second coming. But I played it again. And again. And again. And the fact that I WANT to play it over and over makes me think that it does indeed live up to that hype. And I'd agree with Alex in another regard - it might not be the game that I or others expected, but it's an excellent game.


And I want to know, who was doing the deceiving, exaggerating, intending to mislead? (Hype).

Why do we use 'hype' this way? Hype is a negative term in English. There's a difference in pre-release adverts and excitement and a deliberate intention to deceive! Most (not Alex) use the term in reviews when they intend to show that the game did not live up to the pre-release ads and buzz. But that's NOT hype. That's merely 'excitement.'

In fact, there are a lot of people who won't even look at a game because they think it is 'Hyped.' As though the pre-release excitement automatically says, 'Something's wrong with it!' For me, when there's a lot of pre-release excitement, I want to look into it. There must be some reason so many are excited. It may not be for me, but that doesn't mean it was 'hyped,' or 'over-hyped' as some say. No one was being dishonest or misleading - they were simply excited about a particular type game. I checked it out, and it didn't hit my sweet spot. No use in me knocking the game, or the publisher, or the people who were excited about it and calling it "hyped" (deceptive).
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Richard Dewsbery
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Noun - Extravagant or intensive publicity or promotion.

Verb - Promote or publicize (a product or idea) intensively, often exaggerating its benefits.

Personally I don't see any inherently negative criticism in those definitions, although there is the implication that extravagance or exaggeration might be unwarranted in some circumstances.

Almost certainly rooted from the word "hyperbole”, a long-recognised rhetorical technique.

Was Scythe the subject of intensive, sometimes extravagant promotion before its release? Absolutely. Sadly successful Kickstarters are now measured almost exclusively on the ability to intensively promote the game.

I gather that (having looked it up) in the U.S. it often *is* an inherent negative, but I'm not taking responsibility for your misuse of our language. I'd take an American definition of an English word rooted in Greek seriously when you learn that a "z" in a verb should more often be an "s“, and that the word "colour" has a "u" in it.
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Richard Dewsbery
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And hoopla is a game played at a fairground or carnival, where a wooden ring is thrown with the aim of winning some small prize. Often a goldfish. I don't want to win a goldfish when playing Scythe, thanks.
 
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Frank Hamrick
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RDewsbery wrote:
Noun - Extravagant or intensive publicity or promotion.

Verb - Promote or publicize (a product or idea) intensively, often exaggerating its benefits.

Personally I don't see any inherently negative criticism in those definitions, although there is the implication that extravagance or exaggeration might be unwarranted in some circumstances.

Almost certainly rooted from the word "hyperbole”, a long-recognised rhetorical technique.

Was Scythe the subject of intensive, sometimes extravagant promotion before its release? Absolutely. Sadly successful Kickstarters are now measured almost exclusively on the ability to intensively promote the game.

I gather that (having looked it up) in the U.S. it often *is* an inherent negative, but I'm not taking responsibility for your misuse of our language. I'd take an American definition of an English word rooted in Greek seriously when you learn that a "z" in a verb should more often be an "s“, and that the word "colour" has a "u" in it.


You state that hyperbole is considered overstatement, excess, overkill; from which we get 'hype.' So the overstatement, excess, overkill implication is not negative? Interesting. You can think what you want. So will I. Perhaps its the way I've almost always used or experienced the use of "hype." I've never considered it anything but basically a negative term; you don't.

I still challenge anyone to tell me who and how Sythe was exaggerated, misrepresented, or that its advertisement was 'overkill' (that is, beyond what is normal advertising and promotion - as hype would imply going beyond the normal)? I don't see how you can NOT associate 'hype' with something more than advertising - implying something negative. All definitions of hype indicate that inherent idea.

Final thought: Your argument works for you. My argument works for me. You read the dictionary from your perspective. I read it from mine. We'll probably not change each other with further argument.
 
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Richard Dewsbery
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I can't tell you how Scythe was misrepresented in the original discussions pre-release (”the hype", in English), but I don't need to because it's a question posed from a false premise. The English definition says nothing about misrepresentation, which is why the OP used the word in his post and why I can't answer your question. It definitely DID receive intensive promotion, which is another reason why he could use the word perfectly properly.

Whereas "Worthy of the hype?" is a question that would confuse few Englishmen, and is a question I have seen asked many times in many contexts - does a product, a film, an experience, live up to the extravagant promises made for it? But it's clearly a question that makes no sense in American - because how can something be "worthy" of having been described in a misleading manner? We're using the same word in different ways, and will have to agree to differ. This is one of the reasons why I singly dislike dictionary.com - it's clearly edited by tAmericans for Americans, and the main definition of "hype" given there is a very poor one for the English in part because we simply don't use the word "hoopla" in any context outside of a fairground stall. Looking at the pocket Oxford English Dictionary (a touch abbreviated , necessarily due to its size; the shorter OED is a better reference, but as it runs to two volumes it might once have been a standard book recognised as the definitive work appearing on the shelves of many well-read Englishmen, just not my shelves these days), on the other hand, gives us "excessive or exaggerated publicity, publicise in an excessive way, be very excited or tense". Seems to me (and the OP) that the combination of KS campaign (official) and conversations here on BGG (not official, and often nothing to do with the game's publisher) fit the very definition of the work "hype" as we use it.

But I'm going to put in the "last word" if I may, because it's not fair to the OP to just leave it on the basis that Frank and Richard disagree on the meaning of a word. I'm not the one who called out the OP for using "hype" in a manner which is widely accepted as being correct in the country where he (and I) come from. It's going to make posting to BGG ruddy hard if those of us from England have to check that our use of English is going to rankle anyone who also uses English, but not the English we in England use. Or "keep your pants on" as we might say - but which almost certainly has different connotations in the U.S. thanks to the different meaning of the word "pants".
 
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Christoph Weber
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RDewsbery wrote:
Noun - Extravagant or intensive publicity or promotion.

Verb - Promote or publicize (a product or idea) intensively, often exaggerating its benefits.

Personally I don't see any inherently negative criticism in those definitions, although there is the implication that extravagance or exaggeration might be unwarranted in some circumstances.

Almost certainly rooted from the word "hyperbole”, a long-recognised rhetorical technique.

Was Scythe the subject of intensive, sometimes extravagant promotion before its release? Absolutely. Sadly successful Kickstarters are now measured almost exclusively on the ability to intensively promote the game.

I gather that (having looked it up) in the U.S. it often *is* an inherent negative, but I'm not taking responsibility for your misuse of our language. I'd take an American definition of an English word rooted in Greek seriously when you learn that a "z" in a verb should more often be an "s“, and that the word "colour" has a "u" in it.


But that's the thing, Richard, Scythe imo was not the subject of intensive, sometimes extravagant promotion. At least not any more than many other games. What was different was that the artwork shown early on plus information about gameplay excited a lot of people that then shared this excitement. But I wouldn't call that promotion.

Edit: I think the problem with the use of hype on bgg is that this said excitement is considered hype, which I think is clear from the definition you used that it's not. Like Jamey Stegmaier himself said: there's a difference between a publisher trying to promote his game and gamers sharing their excitement. And that difference is often blurred by the usage of words like hype.
 
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Ian Liddle
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DnaDan56 wrote:
Frank Hamrick wrote:
The actual definition of the noun (not verb, but noun) 'hype' (Dictionary.com) is as follows:
1. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
2. an ingenious or questionable claim, method, etc., used in advertising, promotion, or publicity to intensify the effect.
3. a swindle, deception, or trick.

When a lot of people are excited about a release and are making a lot of noise, we call it 'hype.' That's not hype at all. It just means a lot of people are excited about the game! Nothing wrong with that.


The highlighted section above fits perfectly the #1 definition you give.

Scythe's pre-release promises presented some really exciting things, but the problem is that people reacted not just by getting excited, but by appending their own inferences and interpretations of how those things would manifest. It's the "telephone game": one person tells another, who tells another, each in their own words, resulting in the message getting subtly mutated along the way.

That's fairly normal; what wasn't normal was the scale of the campaign, which disproportionately escalated the intensity of the effect. There's a huge weight of social proof that says "17,000 people paid $1.8M for this game, so it's gotta be like, 10X better than any other game."

That's hyperbola; it's illogical, and it's not the creator's misrepresentation, but the lies that consumers / humans tell themselves because they're generally reliable intellectual shortcuts.
 
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Frank Hamrick
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RDewsbery wrote:
I can't tell you how Scythe was misrepresented in the original discussions pre-release (”the hype", in English), but I don't need to because it's a question posed from a false premise. The English definition says nothing about misrepresentation, which is why the OP used the word in his post and why I can't answer your question. It definitely DID receive intensive promotion, which is another reason why he could use the word perfectly properly.

Whereas "Worthy of the hype?" is a question that would confuse few Englishmen, and is a question I have seen asked many times in many contexts - does a product, a film, an experience, live up to the extravagant promises made for it? But it's clearly a question that makes no sense in American - because how can something be "worthy" of having been described in a misleading manner? We're using the same word in different ways, and will have to agree to differ. This is one of the reasons why I singly dislike dictionary.com - it's clearly edited by tAmericans for Americans, and the main definition of "hype" given there is a very poor one for the English in part because we simply don't use the word "hoopla" in any context outside of a fairground stall. Looking at the pocket Oxford English Dictionary (a touch abbreviated , necessarily due to its size; the shorter OED is a better reference, but as it runs to two volumes it might once have been a standard book recognised as the definitive work appearing on the shelves of many well-read Englishmen, just not my shelves these days), on the other hand, gives us "excessive or exaggerated publicity, publicise in an excessive way, be very excited or tense". Seems to me (and the OP) that the combination of KS campaign (official) and conversations here on BGG (not official, and often nothing to do with the game's publisher) fit the very definition of the work "hype" as we use it.

But I'm going to put in the "last word" if I may, because it's not fair to the OP to just leave it on the basis that Frank and Richard disagree on the meaning of a word. I'm not the one who called out the OP for using "hype" in a manner which is widely accepted as being correct in the country where he (and I) come from. It's going to make posting to BGG ruddy hard if those of us from England have to check that our use of English is going to rankle anyone who also uses English, but not the English we in England use. Or "keep your pants on" as we might say - but which almost certainly has different connotations in the U.S. thanks to the different meaning of the word "pants".


Good enough. We'll leave it at that. BTW, I didn't intend to demean Alex's interesting review/thoughts. I felt that our conversation was somewhat distracting of his review (a conversation I started). I hinted at that in my first reply - but I fear it did detract. As I concluded in my first response: "Now - back to your report - I thought it was excellent."
 
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steve w
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Alexandjef wrote:
We were just moving bits of wood around a table achieving very little.


This is a good quote. And pretty much the heart of the hobby.
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