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Subject: Counter Description? Cadre, Regiment, Division? rss

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Martin Gallo
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I am reading the rules and have come up with a question and possible errata.

On page 3 I see: "Sample unit: see player aid card." which is great and fine except that I cannot find any such thing on other of the player aid cards.

This leads to my question/confusion: How does one tell a Cadre from a regiment from a division? I see that it makes a difference in rule 6, but not how to tell one from another. I assume it is part of the counter description but since I cant find that...
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matt gonneau
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+1

My take is that "2" value VC are cadre, "3" value VC are regiments. So a VC "2" promotes to a VC "3" or VC Sapper. NVA "4" units must be the divisions. (page 2 descriptions)

Since Rule 4 lets us know Pathet Lao and Khmer Rouge also have cadre units I assume the "1" are cadre and "2" regiment for those forces (comes into play when an NVA division breaks down in those countries).

Hmmm.. 4.1.1 states "VC regiments, Divisions and Sappers are not recruited and must be promoted (per rule 6)". But Rule 6 does not mention promoting Divisions, only that NVA divisons can only be broken down and must be "built" during recruitment...

EDIT: I see now NVA divisions only appear per 4.1.3, and only breakdown per rule 6 as previously understood. So assuming we've got the echelons correct it now seems somewhat clear. (deleted mention of breaking down divisions into Cadre+Sapper)
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Martin Gallo
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I sort of concluded mostly the same things. I did not get a steep as you did, so congratulations.

It is a bit of a puzzle, unless it turns out to be easy.
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matt gonneau
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Yeah, let's hope it's easy. How do the original rules read?
 
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Martin Gallo
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I do not know. I have stored my copy somewhere so clever that I cannot find it. Yes I looked in the area where I store my Viet Nam games. Both places and even the third shelf. I ear that it is preparing an ambush...
 
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matt gonneau
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What am I talking about - I have a copy of the original too. I'll see what I can come up with. But hopefully One Step will issue errata soon.

But a great looking game that seems to hit the sweet spot for a one session one-mapper that integrates the most important aspects of the war.
 
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Martin Gallo
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I looked again this morning and cannot find my copy of that Wargamer. Consternating.
 
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matt gonneau
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I emailed OSS with these questions - and also delved a bit further and added a few notes to my previous entry that may help clarify things a bit.
 
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matt gonneau
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OSS got back and basically confirmed the value/echelon layout. But I was off base thinking sappers were available in division breakdown.

The ground combat unit illustrations on page 2 don't distinguish Communist units very well by either color or value. A few more graphics would be handy to clarify what's going on:

VC "2" = Cadre
VC "3" = Regiment
VC "2" = Sapper

KR & PL "1" = Cadre
KR & PL "2" = Regiment

NVA "4" = Division

Also, the rules should list nationalities by color in case you toss the empty counter tree.
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Matt E
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I wonder why 18.6.2 refers to VC Divisions. Those don't seem to exist as far as I can tell.
 
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matt gonneau
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emessi4h wrote:
I wonder why 18.6.2 refers to VC Divisions. Those don't seem to exist as far as I can tell.


I think it's a typo - the only Communist divisions are the NVA "4" value units. OSS and J. Miranda confirmed the value/echelon I posted just above in this thread - VC 2 and 3 are cadre and regiment. The "4" units are NVA Divisions.

It would have been really helpful if all units were clearly defined in the counter descriptions in the rules. Some old hands have been thrown right out of the gates here. Still, it looks like a really nice game..
 
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Matt E
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It's a bit more confusing to me than a typo. "VC Division" is in the rules in several places.

"6.1.4 The number of units in the counter mix is a limit. You cannot, for
example, build more than three VC divisions."

What three counters is this?

And then 18.2.1.2 says Guerrilla regiments are always in supply, but 18.6.2 says supply units can supply a VC division.

I guess I'll assume it's something that was added to the new edition and then removed with some rules remnants left behind.
 
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Darrell Pavitt
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I recall that the smaller silhouettes were for cadres and the larger silhouettes were for the larger units.

Each 'colour' only had two levels, and that was how you distinguished them.
 
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matt gonneau
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Both the terms "NVA" and "VC" are associated with "divisions" in the rules, but since there are no VC Divisions (only VC Cadre and VC Regiment) I think it's safe to assume it's "NVA" they are referring to when divisions are discussed.

Also, the term "Guerilla" seems only to refer to VC, PL and KR units - not NVA Divisions, though it's not explicit in the rules.

Again a clear counter definition chart would sort this all out.

A little more info - what I asked OSS was:

"Are these correct?
VC "2" value, KR & PL "1" value = cadre
VC "2" value sappers = unspecified
VC "3" value, KR & PL "2" value = regiment
(there are no VC, KR or PL divisions)
NVA "4" value = division"

They said yes - so there are no VC Divisions. That's why I think reference to VC Divisions is a typo and should be read as NVA Division.
 
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Matt E
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"A Communist supply unit can supply any and all NVA units and VC
Divisions within six movement points"

This would be a pretty redundant statement if VC was just a typo.
 
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matt gonneau
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emessi4h wrote:
"A Communist supply unit can supply any and all NVA units and VC
Divisions within six movement points"

This would be a pretty redundant statement if VC was just a typo.


You're right about that - and for all we know it might even be a double typo; as in they meant "...all VC units and NVA Divisions..." which would make some sense.

OSS needs to issue some errata and clarifications.
 
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