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Subject: Sydney no-ship September 2016 planning/discussion thread rss

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Bruce Murphy
Australia
Pyrmont
NSW
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Starting this off to capture some intent and conversation around the details of the maths trade. The current proposed timeline is as follows:

This is aimed at getting the trade out of the way before the school holidays and exchanges or muling for those travelling. The major gathering will be early in the holidays.


3/4 Sep list goes up (this weekend) when I've finalised the rule text
13 Sep (Tue) 10pm, items lists due
14 Sep (Wed) 10pm, final codes posted (this will happen earlier)
21 Sep (Wed) 10pm, want lists due
21 Sep (Wed) 11pm, results out
21 Sep (Wed) 11:30pm, final time for pointing out a newbie screwed up and needs help.
27 Sep (Tue) NSG major trade night
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Bruce Murphy
Australia
Pyrmont
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Re: Sydney no-ship September 2016 discussion thread
Rules for this trade.

- no pre-trade sales or else I dunno. I'm a sign not a cop.
- main trade is at NSG.

Really? no more discussion about this?

Also, donations of spare geekgold towards the 'packrat maintains his account at BGG' fund gratefully received. List is almost ready. You'll here about it here first, so subscribe.

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Bruce Murphy
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List is live.

Sydney-wide no-ship September 2016 maths trade
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Alex Brown
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Thanks again, Bruce - love your work

As a reviled buyer of used and discardable wares can I clarify:

I cannot offer cash pre-trade but I can send in a want list with cash offers?

I'm sure this has been discussed at length elsewhere - and I could get out Hansard for the detail - but could someone tell me if the above approach is ok for this Trade?
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Bruce Murphy
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Cash trades are perfectly okay and in fact the only hope of this trade not being a disaster. Please do!

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Des Lee
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Quakers Hill
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Alex Brown wrote:
Thanks again, Bruce - love your work

As a reviled buyer of used and discardable wares can I clarify:

I cannot offer cash pre-trade but I can send in a want list with cash offers?

I'm sure this has been discussed at length elsewhere - and I could get out Hansard for the detail - but could someone tell me if the above approach is ok for this Trade?


Yep. Try to refrain from making pre-trade offers to people, but otherwise enter cash bids in the trade AND enter cash amounts you would accept for the items you want to trade out.
 
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Eduardo Ferrão
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Thanks for getting another trade up and running again Bruce!
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Angelo Dimanarig
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Hey Guys,

Pretty new to the Math Trade here in Sydney and Math trades in general. What's the difference between pre-trades and cash trades?

Really excited to join this trade!
 
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David Harding
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Ashfield
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WhiteHairedKon wrote:
Hey Guys,

Pretty new to the Math Trade here in Sydney and Math trades in general. What's the difference between pre-trades and cash trades?

Really excited to join this trade!

Hi!
Pre trades are when listed games are traded (or usually, sold) directly between two parties before the maths trade happens.
Cash trades is when a game is traded in the maths trade, but the trader receives money for their listed game, not another game. It is possible to put cash in your wants list as well as games! In fact, some people don't put any game up for trade but still take part, providing cash only wants lists (in effect buying second hand games from the list).
Welcome and please feel free to ask questions. There's also a lot of info (wiki etc) to read yourself, I think this is linked to in the header of the maths trade list.
David
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Bruce Murphy
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WhiteHairedKon wrote:
Hey Guys,

Pretty new to the Math Trade here in Sydney and Math trades in general. What's the difference between pre-trades and cash trades?

Really excited to join this trade!


We're asking people (because people kept complaining about this in the past) to not sell any games listed before the trade. We encourage cash offers during the trade because they can be super powerful and will actually help trade loops.

Please ask here or get in touch with me if you need help with want lists.

The basic idea is you should list, individually or as funky bundles, all the games you *might* be willing to trade. WHen everyone has entered their stuff, you'll have to provide a list of everything listed (and optionally a cash amount) for which you would be willing to exchange each of your games (there are tools to help with this).

You will never be forced to trade anything except in exchange for something you have explicitly listed as being a wanted exchange for it.

I suggest treating this as an opportunity to exchange games you don't want much for games you do, without shipping costs, and to meet more people around Sydney and Sydney game groups while doing so. Thus, don't be too-precious about the precise value of a game you don't want vs one you do.

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Bruce Murphy
Australia
Pyrmont
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Look how virtuous I'm already being at fending off various pre-trade offers already. I hope those no-pre-trade people are feeling proud of themselves.

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Simon
Australia
Hornsby
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I, for one, am. Thanks Bruce. Appreciate you trying it this way. Will be interesting to see the stats afterwards, and how people feel it went.
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Bruce Murphy
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earlyworm wrote:
I, for one, am. Thanks Bruce. Appreciate you trying it this way. Will be interesting to see the stats afterwards, and how people feel it went.


I have a very strong hunch about how it'll go, but the stats will be interesting and I'll be publishing them as usual.

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Des Lee
Australia
Quakers Hill
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I suspect that if people submit want lists containing cash bids with the same fervour that they use when chasing pre-trade bargain, then it will go just fine, with the benefit of potentially unlocking more games being traded.

The downside is that as a buyer, you can't directly control your own destiny - you just submit and hope. As a seller, all you care about is selling, you don't particularly care who to. As long as people are ok with this uncertainty and SUBMIT THEIR DAMN WANT LISTS, it'll go just fine. That's not a guarantee that they will though.
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Des Lee
Australia
Quakers Hill
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One additional note aimed at newer maths trade participants who are unsure about what to do... please either take the time to learn about what you need to do and how to submit... or please feel free to contact me via GM. I'm willing to help anyone with understanding how trade lists and want lists work... the success of this trade heavily depends on people participating.

It might be that some people are not comfortable participating in the trade and prefer to just directly contact other users with offers to buy...
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Simon "that sci-fi guy"
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Two games listed so far that I would have snapped up, and prob won't receive as a result of the algorithm.

I think I'm going to agree with Bruce that there will be fewer items moved as those folks who don't want to trade anything (just buy) aren't able to do so with assurance.
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Bruce Murphy
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losfp wrote:
I suspect that if people submit want lists containing cash bids with the same fervour that they use when chasing pre-trade bargain, then it will go just fine, with the benefit of potentially unlocking more games being traded.

The downside is that as a buyer, you can't directly control your own destiny - you just submit and hope. As a seller, all you care about is selling, you don't particularly care who to. As long as people are ok with this uncertainty and SUBMIT THEIR DAMN WANT LISTS, it'll go just fine. That's not a guarantee that they will though.


Ultimately, the cash from early sales can be used to greater effect on e real trade because it can be spilt up one to many or many to one in ways the maths trade algorithm can't do.

B>
 
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Tod Andrew
Australia
Wollongong
NSW
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thepackrat wrote:
Rules for this trade.

- no pre-trade sales or else I dunno. I'm a sign not a cop.
- main trade is at NSG.


B>


What/where is NSG?

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gavin g
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I did enjoy pretrades having benefited quite well from them in the last few trades, though I will welcome the respite from having the option to doggedly check the list as it updates. Any left over games will still have the inevitable left overs geeklist to be scooped up from.
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Des Lee
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tod_13 wrote:


What/where is NSG?



Northside Gamers, they meet in Chatswood (The Chatswood Club) on Tuesday nights.
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Georgina Dear
Australia
Sydney
NSW
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losfp wrote:
tod_13 wrote:


What/where is NSG?



Northside Gamers, they meet in Chatswood (The Chatswood Club) on Tuesday nights.


The Guild page has all the details, but it's about a three-minute walk from Chatswood station or twenty minutes' drive from the city. Street parking is available (easier if you get there early) or if you don't mind a longer walk, you can park in Chatswood Westfield, which has free parking after 6pm, and head up a couple of blocks.

Cheers.
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Bruce Murphy
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I've just sent a geekmail out to (almost) all the people who have participated with wantlists in the sydney maths trades in the last two years.

If you know of anyone who might want to (or should participate), please encourage them to get involved.

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Kris Densley
Australia
Emu Plains
NSW
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DearGeorgina wrote:

The Guild page has all the details, but it's about a three-minute walk from Chatswood station or twenty minutes' drive from the city. Street parking is available (easier if you get there early) or if you don't mind a longer walk, you can park in Chatswood Westfield, which has free parking after 6pm, and head up a couple of blocks.

Cheers.


Thank you. I caught the train last time, and it was a royal pain getting home. So I might investigate driving that day, and parking at one of these locations mentioned.
 
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Tim
Australia
Sydney
NSW
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coxy_fc wrote:
Ok I've not been following the discussion, but why no more pre trade sales? That's 50% of the fun and a good way to sell/buy games. I also had the Impression the majority of people thought it was a good thing.


Because:
- People who can easily refresh and check the list for newly listed games have an advantage over those who cannot.
- People with spare cash laying around have an advantage over those who don't, or those that prefer to trade & not buy.
- Pre-trade sales reduce the pool of games available for trade, and generally the most popular games get taken, generally leaving the unpopular ones (not a good argument, I admit, because not all are put up for sale and there are very good games always available for trade).

Yes, there are arguments both for and against pre-trade sales. It was decided after the last trade, rather than constantly argue over which way is better, to do this trade with no pre-trade sales to actually see what will happen. I am sure there will be a multitude of stats forthcoming after the trade to see what happened. I personally am appreciative of the effort to at least try this out.
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Bruce Murphy
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A number of people insisted that pre-trade sales and/or cash at all were secretly plotting to kill their pets and/or ruin the trade and so after many iterations of these complaints, we are doing a *one time only* no-pre-sale maths trade and see how it goes.

I've already had a bunch of people decline to participate in this trade at all because of the no-pre-trade-sale rule, unfortunately.

The disadvantages I see are around not freeing up cash that can go back into the trade as multi-item bids is probably the most compelling from the perspective of getting as many games into new hands as possible.

People without spare cash usually aren't people with lots of interesting games to trade.
People hanging out to keep an eye on the list maintains a level of excitement and engagement with the trade which I see lacking, in fact I'm seeing an unusually slow ramp-up of items.

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