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Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit #1» Forums » Rules

Subject: Firegroup modifier accumulation rss

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Jim Cote
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Say I have 2 units in different hexes forming a FG with the following individual modifiers:

A: -2 leader, +1 grain hindrance
B: -1 leader, -1 FFMO


A's total modifier is -1, and B's total is -2, but it is true that you take the worst case for each modifier then add them? For example, FFMO doesn't apply unless the entire FG has it? In that case it would be:

-1 leader, +1 grain

...for an even shot.
 
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steven richard
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Worse than that, actually. Leaders can only modify the hexes that they occupy, so leader bonuses don't apply to Fire Groups.

In this particular case (with the information given) you would be better to make two attacks. Those leader bonuses are nothing to sneeze at and you probably would have a better chance at hitting with two leader directed shots than with 1 that isn't.
 
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Jeff Thompson
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Well, this is how I do it...

First, you get -1 for a leader because that's the lowest common denominator as far as leaders go.

Then you have +1 hindrance, that's the worst Hindrance. He's not FFMO because there's a Hindrance.

So yes, it's an even shot, but not how you got there.

The reason this seems a little odd is because the best thing to do is to take 2 separate shots. One of those shots is a -2 DRM. The other is a -1 DMR. 4 -1 and 4 -2 is much better than a single 8 +0. To get at least a NMC the 8+0 needs an 8 or less. For the other shots, you need a 7 or less OR an 8 or less, so it's like getting a free shot.

Ok, that may not be what you want to hear though.

The thing is you take the worst case for each "type" of modifier. Leadership, Hindrance, TEM. This unit is NOT FFMO because there is a hindrance for the FG.

Unless you are firing into +2 terrain (or tougher), it is almost always better to take two shots. Some might argue +1 terrain, and it's true but there are some FP breaks that it doesn't pay.

Hope that helped.
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Jeff Thompson
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m:cafe wrote:
Worse than that, actually. Leaders can only modify the hexes that they occupy, so leader bonuses don't apply to Fire Groups.


This is incorrect, you do in fact use leadership in a FG but a leader must be in every hex of the FG, then the worst DRM is used.
 
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Arslanian
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You should split the shots up. The -2 leader would be -1 shot and the other leader a -2. You shouldn't throw away a negative mod in favor of adding more fire power unless it increase the IFT column by 1 more than the negative mod thrown away. This situation doesn't come up all that often for me but I think I've split the shots up whenever it happened.
 
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Jim Cote
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I realize my example wasn't realistic, but I just wanted to get exactly the kind of answer Tompy gave. The fact that the worst case hindrance applies to the entire FG and cancels FFMO even though the two do not coincide is a great example of something that is not intuitive. Thanks!
 
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steven richard
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Sorry for inserting a piece of false data into the conversation...in retrospect, the fact that the lesser leadership value for a FG is usually zero (i.e. I never clump my leaders next to each other on the battlefield) somehow trained me into thinking that a FG leadership value is always zero. A useful reminder for me to revisit all of the SK rules before tackling the brain burning vehicles in #3!
 
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