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Zombicide: Black Plague» Forums » Rules

Subject: Lines of sight vs. noise. rss

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The Clansman
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Playing WB7: BloodRed, we found an odd situation.
Wolves have spawned on the top left spawn zone.
There are Survivors (using bows) on the tower in the bottom left corner (10V) and others on the tower bottom right (11R) using magic.

Zombies spawning top left cannot see anyone, so move to the right...at which point they have LoS onto the 10V tower.

For the wolves, this appears to mean that they move right on the first action, then they can see the survivors so move back left on the second. Now they cannot see the survivors, so move right again, towards the noise from the spellcaster, but never actually go anywhere.

Does anyone have any suggestions how to resolve this paradox?


 
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Angelus Seniores
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is the spellcaster effecvely the highest noise on the board?
when the survivors in tower 10v make more noise than the spellcaster the wolves will move to them regardless whether they see them or not.
remember, each survivor also counts for 1 noise.

also, either the other zombies will be attacking the towers, or the amount of noise on the board might change which will eventually stop the back and forth movement of the wolves.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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This is an issue that was first noticed as soon as the rules for towers were released.

There is no paradox, it's just one of the ways you can herd Zombies, which are inherently stupid enough to chase their own tails like the Wolfz do in this situation.

If you don't like the rule, pretty much the only way to stop it from happening in a fair way is to break the reciprocal line of sight between tower and street Zones. Have Actors in towers able to see the streets, but not vice versa.

Edit: Hmm, my memory was faulty. We noticed it even before the rules were released! I'd forgotten I'd even gone to the trouble of making images to illustrate it:



I've since mellowed on how stupid I found the rule, but I was still surprised to see it remained that way when the rules did come out.
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Lefty Lefterson
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The wolves get three actions per activation. This means that you choose which way they are going and then move all 3 actions in that direction. You don't choose which way they go for each action. Same with runners except two actions per activation.
 
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Jeff Carter
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joltanddestroy wrote:
The wolves get three actions per activation. This means that you choose which way they are going and then move all 3 actions in that direction. You don't choose which way they go for each action. Same with runners except two actions per activation.

This is not correct. For zombies (and wolfz in this case), Actions and Activations are identical. This is spelled out in the rules for wolfz:
Wulfsburg rulebook wrote:
Special rule: Zombie Wolfz have 3 Actions per Game Turn.
After all Zombies (including the Runners and Zombie Wolfz)
have gone through their Activation step and resolved their
first Action, the Runners and Zombie Wolfz go through the
Activation step again, using their second Action to Attack a
Survivor in their Zone or Move if there is nobody to Attack.
Then the Zombie Wolfz go through the Activation step for a
third time, using their third Action to attack a Survivor in
their Zone or Move if there is nobody to attack.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Well, it's right that you get three Actions per Activation (thus not identical), but it's incorrect that they remember what they saw/did in their past Actions.

What is identical is that an Action is taken by running through an Activation step. That means processing three Activation steps each time Wolfz get an Activation.
 
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Jeff Carter
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Clipper wrote:
Well, it's right that you get three Actions per Activation (thus not identical), but it's incorrect that they remember what they saw/did in their past Actions.

What is identical is that an Action is taken by running through an Activation step. That means processing three Activation steps each time Wolfz get an Activation.

For all practical purposes, the only time they aren't identical is when they get extra activations.
 
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The Clansman
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Clipper: thanks for confirming my understanding and for the suggested house rule. Will have a think about implementation. There might be scope to roll a die to determine whether ground level zombies spot the survivor up the tower. After all the survivor might be hiding behind the battlements...

Jolt: I think the only actors which make multiple moves on a single Activation are Crowz (assuming BP Crowz work on the same basis as in the "modern" game)
 
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chang chang

Connecticut
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yea, this rule is one that can be easy "abuse" .. this situation would happen and for me is ok. What I don't let in my games is use a "cheap" tactic of forcing this. So as long as you just run into this situation, oh well it happens... planning this situation with each target would just brake the game and make it boring ... imo
 
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Chuck Hurd
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chang_1910 wrote:
yea, this rule is one that can be easy "abuse" .. this situation would happen and for me is ok. What I don't let in my games is use a "cheap" tactic of forcing this. So as long as you just run into this situation, oh well it happens... planning this situation with each target would just brake the game and make it boring ... imo

Yep, totally agree with this.

We would probably rule right on the spot that the Zs are going to move in one direction or another, not back and forth, or at most not allow it more than once then break the pattern.

Imagine if the noise was equal...you'd have a zombie making machine
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Carcking wrote:
Imagine if the noise was equal...you'd have a zombie making machine

Which is why you should always be careful never to have two sources of equal loudest noise in different parts of the map. It almost always does create a Zombie machine.
 
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Chuck Hurd
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Clipper wrote:
Carcking wrote:
Imagine if the noise was equal...you'd have a zombie making machine

Which is why you should always be careful never to have two sources of equal loudest noise in different parts of the map. It almost always does create a Zombie machine.

Yah, imagine it starts with one Wolf. He moves north toward his LoS target for his first action. For his second he now has two targets of equal noise so he splits, one going even one more zone north and one coming back to his start zone. For the third action the original moves north again but the new wolf has a target of two zones of equal noise, so he splits again...and so on. If you're not careful with noise you could be in for an awakening.
 
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Jeffrey Nolin
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Another way to handle towers would be to modify line of sight to towers for Zs. Normal line of sight (from a distance or not diagonally) applies, until a Z gets 'normal rule' line of sight from an adjacent zone, after which they maintain line of sight to 'all' zones on the tower as they move through the zones next to the tower and up the staircase. Basically, once they know something is in the tower, they will follow through on investigating it unless a noisier group within 'normal' line of sight distracts them. Once established, heroes on the tower can't break line of sight by moving to the far side or diagonally and Zs don't lose line of sight as long as they are in any zone next to the tower.
 
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Chuck Hurd
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longagoigo wrote:
Another way to handle towers would be to modify line of sight to towers for Zs. Normal line of sight (from a distance or not diagonally) applies, until a Z gets 'normal rule' line of sight from an adjacent zone, after which they maintain line of sight to 'all' zones on the tower as they move through the zones next to the tower and up the staircase. Basically, once they know something is in the tower, they will follow through on investigating it unless a noisier group within 'normal' line of sight distracts them. Once established, heroes on the tower can't break line of sight by moving to the far side or diagonally and Zs don't lose line of sight as long as they are in any zone next to the tower.

You had me up until heroes can't break LoS by moving. The rest makes sense to me though.
 
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