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No Retreat! The North African Front» Forums » Rules

Subject: Tobruk and Tanks rss

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Barry Setser
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Carl,

Another Tobruk/Fort question that probably has been answered before.

Attacking with Armor into Tobruk which is defended by Infantry - there's no Armor shifts here due to the Fort.

Attacking with Armor into Tobruk which is defended by Armor, again no Armor shifts here as the Attacker loses their shift from the Defender's Fort and (I'm assuming) the Defending Armor has no shifts because the Attacker has Armor.

Question 1 - Does the Defender lose their Armor bonus when they occupy a hex that nullifies Armor shifts (the Fort, though the discussion could include any Armor shift nullifying terrain)

Question 2 - Defending Heavy Armor in a Fort lose their 2 shifts because they are in an Armor nullifying terrain?

Question 3 - If the answers to those question are no (Defender does not lose their shift when in an Armor shift cancelling hex), then will the Defender keep an Armor shift (either Heavy or normal) when they occupy an Armor shift cancelling terrain and the Attacker is attacking with Armor (whose shift is cancelled by Defender's terrain)?

My understanding of these issues were turned upside down with the latest match

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Here the truceless armies yet / Trample, rolled in blood and sweat; / They kill and kill and never die; / And I think that each is I. // None will part us, none undo / The knot that makes one flesh of two, /
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Sick with hatred, sick with pain, / Strangling -- When shall we be slain? // When shall I be dead and rid / Of the wrong my father did? / How long, how long, till spade and hearse / Puts to sleep my mother's curse?
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Great game, one of my favorites.
 
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Barry Setser
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Oh, now you tell me. Been looking for a match for awhile now and finally got an online match going on
 
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Carl Paradis
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Hello Barry,

I'm not home today so have no access to my files, but I think I can answer you quickly.

Check the Tobruk attack extensive example of play in the playbook, page 17. You have that exact game situation described (armor attacking heavy armor in Tobruk), and it will anser all your questions.

If it does not, get back to me. meeple

Edit: Read again rule 13.5.3

Edit Bis: Answers to your two first questions are Yes and Yes.
 
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Carl Paradis
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David Ells wrote:
Great game, one of my favorites.


Thanks David, I like it a lot too. Plus there is the extra Bonus Crete game thrown in. Sadly people seem to be taken aback by the separate maps and activation system; and does not seem to get played as much as I expected. cry

One thing I would love to be able to do: eventually add more event cards to the game.
 
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Barry Setser
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Well, if the answers are a double yes, then the last one really ought to be no, else you'll have real issues on hand.

For some reason it seemed odd to me that the Defender in an Armor Shift nullify hex would lose the Armor shift. Not sure why it seemed off to me, but in my head at least, the argument could be made either way.

Bottom line is that you have no business defending with Armor in a terrain that causes it to lose the Armor shift. In my particular game, there's no other option, but normally you just don't defend with Armor in such hexes
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Carl Paradis
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bsets wrote:
Well, if the answers are a double yes, then the last one really ought to be no, else you'll have real issues on hand.

For some reason it seemed odd to me that the Defender in an Armor Shift nullify hex would lose the Armor shift. Not sure why it seemed off to me, but in my head at least, the argument could be made either way.

Bottom line is that you have no business defending with Armor in a terrain that causes it to lose the Armor shift. In my particular game, there's no other option, but normally you just don't defend with Armor in such hexes


Yep third answer is No.

And this is correct Armor have no place in mines and forts. Well, they are useful but not super effective. Better use Infantry with Anti-tank Guns.

Just look at how Rommel deployed his tanks when defending at El-Alamein...
 
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Barry Setser
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I would actually like to have a talk with you offline (or off forum) at some point. Been working on some ideas, but they are not quite polished yet.

It is a clever game once you get the hang of resolving combat correctly, understanding how to deploy to the split maps, interpreting the cards correctly and dealing with Supply. In fact, that could be a good player aid done in exactly that order

Even I futzed up the combat in my current match; with proper understanding, would have played the game differently
 
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Barry Setser
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Now that Crete game - real sexy piece of work there...

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Carl Paradis
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bsets wrote:
I would actually like to have a talk with you offline (or off forum) at some point. Been working on some ideas, but they are not quite polished yet.

It is a clever game once you get the hang of resolving combat correctly, understanding how to deploy to the split maps, interpreting the cards correctly and dealing with Supply. In fact, that could be a good player aid done in exactly that order

Even I futzed up the combat in my current match; with proper understanding, would have played the game differently


Well if you want to make such a player aid, I will definitely help, AND I can make it into a GMT-Quality document with Adobe Illustrator graphics, too.
 
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Barry Setser
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We are so close in our current match. I'll keep you posted if it all gels or not. We had another round of epiphanies during out last exchange
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