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Subject: BAD experience with Scale Games (The FALLEN FRONTIER 's kickstarter) rss

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Hi,

I participated in the fallen frontier's Kickstarter campaing almost two years ago ( https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/298260359/fallen-fronti... ). Another miniatures game ... Yummy !.
The guys from Scale games delivered the game with a year late. I have no problem with that, it is difficult to produce a game. But, when they announced that all boxes were posted and i didn't get mine, i was a little bit worry.
I contact them via Kickstarter ... ... nothing. Their forum ... Nothing! their website ... still no answer ... I try Facebook ... More than 10 days later, an answer ... Yooohoo !

Guys tells me this:

Good morning According with update nº67 on the kikstarter campaing (https://www.kickstarter.com/…/fallen-frontier…/posts/1314856) you make a donation with no rewards to the proyect Kinds regards

But wait, I have fulfilled this pledge manager? You have my payment information, my backer number ... What ?! And even, imagine I didn't do it, you punished people who helped you to create your game ?! You are robbing me more than $100 ?!

Incredible !

V

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Marina SC
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When you backed via the pledge manager, you should have received some sort of email confirmation of your order which lists which rewards you pledged for in addition to the amount you spent. Send this proof of purchase to the company, it's possible there's just some glitch in the database
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Paul DeStefano
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vodu wrote:
And even, imagine I didn't do it, you punished people who helped you to create your game ?! You are robbing me more than $100 ?!


People are allowed to pledge $1000 for the "just saying thanks / I'm a supporter" level. You get nothing. You just pledge support.
 
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Ken Lewis
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Geosphere wrote:
vodu wrote:
And even, imagine I didn't do it, you punished people who helped you to create your game ?! You are robbing me more than $100 ?!


People are allowed to pledge $1000 for the "just saying thanks / I'm a supporter" level. You get nothing. You just pledge support.


I don't think that is what happened. It seems that the creators of the Kickstarter stated: Be aware because once the campaign is officially closed those of you who haven't completed it yet, we’ll consider that you make a donation without reward to the project."

I get the impression the OP may have had issues with the pledge manager.

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David Belk
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Wow im sorry to hear. Thats totally messed up. Thx ill never buy or back anything from them.
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Paul DeStefano
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Giant_Monster wrote:

I don't think that is what happened. It seems that the creators of the Kickstarter stated: Be aware because once the campaign is officially closed those of you who haven't completed it yet, we’ll consider that you make a donation without reward to the project."

I get the impression the OP may have had issues with the pledge manager.



If that was their declared terms and backers agreed...

Not much they did wrong.
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Ken Lewis
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Geosphere wrote:
Giant_Monster wrote:

I don't think that is what happened. It seems that the creators of the Kickstarter stated: Be aware because once the campaign is officially closed those of you who haven't completed it yet, we’ll consider that you make a donation without reward to the project."

I get the impression the OP may have had issues with the pledge manager.



If that was their declared terms and backers agreed...

Not much they did wrong.


Spoken like a company man..

Technically they didn't do anything wrong, however things like this don't make for positive customer experiences which could hurt their reputation.

Is keeping that $100 more important than sending the game and making a customer happy?
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Chuck Harrison
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Giant_Monster wrote:


I don't think that is what happened. It seems that the creators of the Kickstarter stated: Be aware because once the campaign is officially closed those of you who haven't completed it yet, we’ll consider that you make a donation without reward to the project."

It doesn't look like the creators stated that until 9 months after the campaign ended and they already had the backers' money.
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Stephen Williams
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Geosphere wrote:

If that was their declared terms and backers agreed...
Not much they did wrong.


Normally, I'm a firm supporter of the "fool and his money" philosophy... If you can't be bothered to pay attention to what you're doing, then you deserve what you get.

In this particular case, however, it seems kind of harsh. I mean, taking people's hard earned money and giving nothing in return? Simply because the backer neglected to fill out a survey on time? Sure, the creators get to set the rules as they like, but what does it say about them that they chose to set these rules in the first place?

As another poster already pointed out, you can pledge $1000 to the $1 reward level if you want. Therefore the system must have a way of tracking which reward level the backer chose regardless of the actual dollar value pledged. So, instead of saying "if you don't finish up the pledge manager you get nothing" they could have said "if you don't finish up the pledge manager, you automatically get the cheapest set of options for your chosen reward level." At least that way, people who forgot, or had connection troubles, or were otherwise unable to follow through in time would get something for the money they sent in.

I can understand the creators not being willing to refund backers who failed to fill out the pledge manager. Firstly, it's money. Secondly, in the worst case, refunding everyone who failed to fill out the pledge manager might cause them to fall below their funding goal, after it's too late. KS has already taken their cut and the backers who DID fill out the pledge manager are expecting results now. But seriously, given these poor saps SOMETHING for their money.

Even something simple like a t-shirt or a hat with a project-related slogan on it would be better than nothing.

If I were a project creator in this circumstance, I think I'd prepare something unique for these cases. Cheap, of course, but unique. Like a t-shirt that says "I backed Stewi's Awesome Game Project and all I got was this stupid T-Shirt!" (otherwise unavailable to people who know what they're doing.)

Heck, it might even become a collectible that these backers could sell online to recoup some of the money they "lost" on the project.

Edit:
Tineren wrote:
Giant_Monster wrote:

I don't think that is what happened. It seems that the creators of the Kickstarter stated: Be aware because once the campaign is officially closed those of you who haven't completed it yet, we’ll consider that you make a donation without reward to the project."

It doesn't look like the creators stated that until 9 months after the campaign ended and they already had the backers' money.


Based on this new (ninja'd) info, I take back my previous claim of it seeming kind of harsh. If this is true, it's downright dirty pool.
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Ken Lewis
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Tineren wrote:
Giant_Monster wrote:


I don't think that is what happened. It seems that the creators of the Kickstarter stated: Be aware because once the campaign is officially closed those of you who haven't completed it yet, we’ll consider that you make a donation without reward to the project."

It doesn't look like the creators stated that until 9 months after the campaign ended and they already had the backers' money.


That is true. It kind of seems like it was added as a way to wash their hands of having to do any extra pledge work after they closed the pledge manager.
 
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Jeff Wood
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Sounds like you had a bad experience with the result having lost $$$ through the fine print.

Do feel free to shout about the company, after all, you paid for the privilege to support them...they agreed to accept whatever level of support from you you wanted to give, and if that support is scorn, well, they agreed to that too.

Maybe the next company will learn about bad PR and work on customer relations before it is too late.
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Stuart
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Post your experience of the company on the forums in Fallen Frontiers to give the matter higher visibility (it will soon get buried in General Gaming by other topics). You can also rate your annoyance of being duped out of $100 by rating the game 1 and explaining why in the comment section.
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Sam Carroll
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Yeah, if this is true, it's dishonest and scummy. Certainly enough to put me off ever buying anything from Scale, and you can tell them so from me!

Seriously, get in that game forum and raise a stink! Make a geeklist of shady game companies and tell your story on it! I can't imagine keeping your $100/not sending you a game is more valuable to Scale than the goodwill of boardgame enthusiasts.
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I tried to post something on the fallen fronters forum but they banned me.

Information
You have been permanently banned from this board.
Please contact the Board Administrator for more information.
A ban has been issued on your username.

I never post anything and i never insulted them by email. They just don't care about their customers.
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Drew
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Did you post the same thing as your first post?
 
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CJ
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Cinnibar wrote:
Sounds like you had a bad experience with the result having lost $$$ through the fine print.


Does kickstarter as a company allow for creators to retrospectively alter pledge details..? Although we don't know the detail of the OP's situation the majority of pledge levels clearly indicate rewards to be received.
 
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SoundCity wrote:
Did you post the same thing as your first post?


Actually, they banned me before my first post on the forum.
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vodu wrote:
SoundCity wrote:
Did you post the same thing as your first post?


Actually, they banned me before my first post on the forum.


That is horrible! Did you reach out to see how or why you were banned?
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elgin_j wrote:
Does kickstarter as a company allow for creators to retrospectively alter pledge details..?


KS doesn't enforce anything, so absolutely, positively, YES.

OP's other recourse is to wait for another Scale Games KS, pledge $1, and post that he hasn't received product and was banned on the SG forum.
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vodu wrote:
I tried to post something on the fallen fronters forum but they banned me.


Post your experience here on BGG in the Fallen Frontiers forum. It will give your problem with them higher visibilty. Give them some bad publicity. Kickstarter game companies know that a lot of their customers are on BGG. Sadly, from your banning story it is clear that Scale just want to keep your money and aren't interested in any resolution.
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SoundCity wrote:
vodu wrote:
SoundCity wrote:
Did you post the same thing as your first post?


Actually, they banned me before my first post on the forum.


That is horrible! Did you reach out to see how or why you were banned?



I said (by email) that i will share this experience with others players (using forums).
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Stephen Williams
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vodu wrote:

I said (by email) that i will share this experience with others players (using forums).


Wow. So, you told Scale Games by email about your disappointment (giving them more than fair warning) and their response was to ban your account to prevent you from speaking up? How did you phrase the email? Did you give them a chance to negotiate the issue quietly, or was this more of an unmitigated threat?

I mean, either way it's pretty shitty of them to just straight up ban you, but you should be careful not to sink to their level while you struggle to get the truth out.
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Here is my last email to Scale games :


Your attitude is illegal.
I am gonna complain to have a refund. You can't ask people to have all the information regarding an order. You should keep informations on your side.
And, you are totally unfair with people who helped you to do your game.

That's unacceptable !

I will discuss about this experience with others players on different forums.
What a shame to act like this.

I am angry but not uncivilised. I told them they could only send me a box with miniatures. NO ! NOTHING !
 
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Geosphere wrote:
If that was their declared terms and backers agreed...

Not much they did wrong.
It not declared terms because Kickstarter doesn't have such terms if you read the terms of agreement. After a Kickstarter you can't add additional terms, creating hoops for someone to go through and declare if they don't... then it is a donation.

Here is the thing... A pledge manager is not needed to fulfill nor is part of Kickstarter. The agreement for Kickstarter doesn't involve a pledge manager but only involves a survey (which is supposed to be required).

Now a pledge manager does make it easier to facilitate, deliver and organize pledges for "creators" not the backers. With that in mind. Not completing one does not mean your pledge becomes a "donation". Someone can't change the terms of agreement, that they did not agree too, by saying if you do not complete a pledge manager then it is a donation and sorry you are SOL.
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Ken Lewis
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DarkSeverance wrote:
Giant_Monster wrote:
If that was their declared terms and backers agreed...

Not much they did wrong.
It not declared terms because Kickstarter doesn't have such terms if you read the terms of agreement. After a Kickstarter you can't add additional terms, creating hoops for someone to go through and declare if they don't... then it is a donation.

Here is the thing... A pledge manager is not needed to fulfill nor is part of Kickstarter. The agreement for Kickstarter doesn't involve a pledge manager but only involves a survey (which is supposed to be required).

Now a pledge manager does make it easier to facilitate, deliver and organize pledges for "creators" not the backers. With that in mind. Not completing one does not mean your pledge becomes a "donation". Someone can't change the terms of agreement, that they did not agree too, by saying if you do not complete a pledge manager then it is a donation and sorry you are SOL.


I just want to point out that I did not say the quote you are quoting. Geosphere was the poster who originally said that.
 
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