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Subject: EU revoir! French candidate would put leaving EU on the ballot. rss

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Rebecca Carpenter
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France could be next to leave the EU. If there's a referendum I hope it's called EU revoir instead of admittingly catchy Frexit.

From The Hill:

Quote:
A French right-wing leader is promising a nationwide referendum on whether the country should leave or remain in the European Union if she gets elected.

Marine Le Pen, the leader of France's anti-immigration National Front, on Saturday said she would hold an EU referendum if elected president next spring, according to The Associated Press.

Le Pen also denounced "mass immigration" and called Islamism "the new totalitarianism of the 21st century."

The United Kingdom held a similar referendum this summer, with the majority of voters voting to leave the EU. The country has not yet begun the process of the so-called Brexit.


Marine Le Pen from this Time article:

Quote:
The European Union is objectively a total failure. It’s a social failure, it’s an economic failure, it’s a failure in terms of power, it’s a diplomatic failure.

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Steve
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For some reason I can't open the linked article.
Every time it trys it stops my browser and I get the message "Explorer has stopped working".

 
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Rebecca Carpenter
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Steve1501 wrote:
For some reason I can't open the linked article.
Every time it trys it stops my browser and I get the message "Explorer has stopped working".



Strange, it works for me, in Chrome.

http://time.com/4386695/brexit-france-q-and-a-marine-le-pen-...
 
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Junior McSpiffy
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Steve1501 wrote:
For some reason I can't open the linked article.
Every time it trys it stops my browser and I get the message "Explorer has stopped working".



Maybe your Explorer is the French version?
 
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Steve
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CoffeeRunner wrote:
France could be next to leave the EU. If there's a referendum I hope it's called EU revoir instead of admittingly catchy Frexit.

From The Hill:

Quote:
A French right-wing leader is promising a nationwide referendum on whether the country should leave or remain in the European Union if she gets elected.

Marine Le Pen, the leader of France's anti-immigration National Front, on Saturday said she would hold an EU referendum if elected president next spring, according to The Associated Press.

Le Pen also denounced "mass immigration" and called Islamism "the new totalitarianism of the 21st century."

The United Kingdom held a similar referendum this summer, with the majority of voters voting to leave the EU. The country has not yet begun the process of the so-called Brexit.


Marine Le Pen from this Time article:

Quote:
The European Union is objectively a total failure. It’s a social failure, it’s an economic failure, it’s a failure in terms of power, it’s a diplomatic failure.


Perhaps it is a failure for the same reasons that America has failed the Blacks here. Too many White Americans never saw them as being fully Americans and so didn't care in the least if they were left behind. And some even took much joy in pushing them down further.

In the same way that most European nations [if not people] didn't care in 2008 & 9 when the Great Recession caused Ireland [through little fault of its own] to fall through the cracks [of the rules set] and also Greece which was more at fault. And, other nations.

 
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David Dearlove
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This has been Front National policy for years. So what?
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David Dearlove
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Steve1501 wrote:
CoffeeRunner wrote:
France could be next to leave the EU. If there's a referendum I hope it's called EU revoir instead of admittingly catchy Frexit.

From The Hill:

Quote:
A French right-wing leader is promising a nationwide referendum on whether the country should leave or remain in the European Union if she gets elected.

Marine Le Pen, the leader of France's anti-immigration National Front, on Saturday said she would hold an EU referendum if elected president next spring, according to The Associated Press.

Le Pen also denounced "mass immigration" and called Islamism "the new totalitarianism of the 21st century."

The United Kingdom held a similar referendum this summer, with the majority of voters voting to leave the EU. The country has not yet begun the process of the so-called Brexit.


Marine Le Pen from this Time article:

Quote:
The European Union is objectively a total failure. It’s a social failure, it’s an economic failure, it’s a failure in terms of power, it’s a diplomatic failure.


Perhaps it is a failure for the same reasons that America has failed the Blacks here. Too many White Americans never saw them as being fully Americans and so didn't care in the least if they were left behind. And some even took much joy in pushing them down further.

In the same way that most European nations [if not people] didn't care in 2008 & 9 when the Great Recession caused Ireland [through little fault of its own] to fall through the cracks [of the rules set] and also Greece which was more at fault. And, other nations.


Ireland had a ridiculous property boom fuelled by corruption and greed. of course it was not the fault of ordinary Irish people just as it was not the fault of ordinary Greek people but the Irish political establishment were just as culpable.

Your stuff about American race relations has bugger all to do with European politics though. Black Americans are citizens of the same country as white Americans. Greeks and Irish people are citizens of their own countries.
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Alexandre P.
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CoffeeRunner wrote:
France could be next to leave the EU. If there's a referendum I hope it's called EU revoir instead of admittingly catchy Frexit.


Our current political system makes it impossible for the Front National to get real power.

Could she be elected president ?
Yes, in theory.

But ...Our president is elected by the voters (not by elected politicians) in 2 rounds and if she was selected for the 2nd round against any other politician, there would be a large movement to vote for whoever is the 2nd candidate.
It happened to her father in 2002: he lost 80-20.

And if she was elected ?
She would need the congress to have a real power and to change laws. But our parliamentarians are elected few weeks after the election of the president, by the majority, district by district and in 2 turns. Which, once again allow all others parties to join up against the extreme-right-wing and make this party fail.
In 2012 during the first turn, 13% of the votes were for the Front national and they get ... 2 seats among the 577.

Our prime minister, who is the real head of the government is chosen in the leading party of the low-chamber of the Parliament and he is the one leading the policies while the president is "the face of France" abroad.

So ... I don't worry about an extreme-right-wing power in France.
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Steve
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DavidDearlove wrote:
Steve1501 wrote:
CoffeeRunner wrote:

The European Union is objectively a total failure. It’s a social failure, it’s an economic failure, it’s a failure in terms of power, it’s a diplomatic failure.


Perhaps it is a failure for the same reasons that America has failed the Blacks here. Too many White Americans never saw them as being fully Americans and so didn't care in the least if they were left behind. And some even took much joy in pushing them down further.

In the same way that most European nations [if not people] didn't care in 2008 & 9 when the Great Recession caused Ireland [through little fault of its own] to fall through the cracks [of the rules set] and also Greece which was more at fault. And, other nations.


Ireland had a ridiculous property boom fuelled by corruption and greed. Of course it was not the fault of ordinary Irish people just as it was not the fault of ordinary Greek people but the Irish political establishment were just as culpable.

Your stuff about American race relations has bugger all to do with European politics though. Black Americans are citizens of the same country as white Americans. Greeks and Irish people are citizens of their own countries.

Your comment just proves what I said. My understanding was that a goal of the EU was to make all the people into "Europeans" instead of French, Germans, etc.

You don't see them as co-nationalists with you in just the same way as too any whites thought the same way about Blacks here.

Until you-all think you are part of 1 nation you-all can't share a currency without major winners and major losers who lose everything, in some cases their lives [for lack of timely medical care, etc.]

As to your comment about the Irish mistakes; I'm certainly no expert. It's my understanding that the corruption and greed were not official acts of the Gov. So, as mostly the acts of private citizens, how is it in any way fair to punish the nation for the greed of some of its citizens? And that greed was only a problem then because American bankers were also greedy.

Recessions will always happen from time to time. When they do the nation needs to be able to borrow to make up for the reduced tax revenues which always happen at the same time as the need for increased spending to cover such additional expenses as unemployment insurance claims rising and probably some stimulation spending. Austerity does not work. Borrowing is the only answer during a recession. The EU rules against borrowing [by some nations at least] in a recession is part of the reason that the "EU has failed" [to hark back to the quoted article].

 
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Steve1501 wrote:
As to your comment about the Irish mistakes; I'm certainly no expert. It's my understanding that the corruption and greed were not official acts of the Gov. So, as mostly the acts of private citizens, how is it in any way fair to punish the nation for the greed of some of its citizens? And that greed was only a problem then because American bankers were also greedy.


The Irish economic problems were due to housing bubbles and unregulated banks. Some of this can be blamed on private citizens, but some of it is certainly the governments fault (most Irish people I know certainly put a great deal of blame on the government, for what that's worth).

In any case, that Ireland was hit so badly (relative to the rest of the EU) during the global financial crisis is most certainly not 'through little fault of its own'.

That said, I think it would be in a far worse state if it were not part of the EU.
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Boaty McBoatface
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DavidDearlove wrote:
This has been Front National policy for years. So what?
I would tend to agree, I am not sure that France is going to vote leave. I think some of the smaller Northern countries may.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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DavidDearlove wrote:
Steve1501 wrote:
CoffeeRunner wrote:
France could be next to leave the EU. If there's a referendum I hope it's called EU revoir instead of admittingly catchy Frexit.

From The Hill:

Quote:
A French right-wing leader is promising a nationwide referendum on whether the country should leave or remain in the European Union if she gets elected.

Marine Le Pen, the leader of France's anti-immigration National Front, on Saturday said she would hold an EU referendum if elected president next spring, according to The Associated Press.

Le Pen also denounced "mass immigration" and called Islamism "the new totalitarianism of the 21st century."

The United Kingdom held a similar referendum this summer, with the majority of voters voting to leave the EU. The country has not yet begun the process of the so-called Brexit.


Marine Le Pen from this Time article:

Quote:
The European Union is objectively a total failure. It’s a social failure, it’s an economic failure, it’s a failure in terms of power, it’s a diplomatic failure.


Perhaps it is a failure for the same reasons that America has failed the Blacks here. Too many White Americans never saw them as being fully Americans and so didn't care in the least if they were left behind. And some even took much joy in pushing them down further.

In the same way that most European nations [if not people] didn't care in 2008 & 9 when the Great Recession caused Ireland [through little fault of its own] to fall through the cracks [of the rules set] and also Greece which was more at fault. And, other nations.


Ireland had a ridiculous property boom fuelled by corruption and greed. of course it was not the fault of ordinary Irish people just as it was not the fault of ordinary Greek people but the Irish political establishment were just as culpable.

Your stuff about American race relations has bugger all to do with European politics though. Black Americans are citizens of the same country as white Americans. Greeks and Irish people are citizens of their own countries.
The Greeks engaged in active tax avoidance (and evasion) on massive scale, yes it was their fault.
 
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Alexandre P.
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slatersteven wrote:
The Greeks engaged in active tax avoidance (and evasion) on massive scale, yes it was their fault.


And the EU is supposed to check the books of candidate countries to both the EU and the Eurozone.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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Xahendir wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
The Greeks engaged in active tax avoidance (and evasion) on massive scale, yes it was their fault.


And the EU is supposed to check the books of candidate countries to both the EU and the Eurozone.
Yes, which is why many of us say the EU is fundamentally broken and beyond repair.
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jeremy cobert
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Steve1501 wrote:
Perhaps it is a failure for the same reasons that Progressive policies have failed the Blacks here.


Fixed that for you. Also, why are only blacks failing in America while Asians seem to be thriving. Also, if this were true, why does America remain the nation where most Africans choose to immigrate to ?

Side note: is this your new shtick ? white guilt ?
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Steve
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jeremycobert wrote:
Steve1501 wrote:
Perhaps it is a failure for the same reasons that Progressive policies have failed the Blacks here.


Fixed that for you. Also, why are only blacks failing in America while Asians seem to be thriving. Also, if this were true, why does America remain the nation where most Africans choose to immigrate to ?

Side note: is this your new shtick ? white guilt ?

I have an answer to your 1st question. Do you?

I'd bet that your answer would be that Blacks are stupid and/or lazy. Am I right? Or, maybe it's the Progressive policies that were in place from 1865 until 1933. Oh, that's right, there weren't any such policies in those years. There was Jim Crow until 1965.

My answer is that Asians were able to bring their Culture from Asia with them and it had elements that helped them succeed here better than Blacks have. Many of the 1st arrivals made some money and went back to buy some land and be a land owner. It was the later ones who stayed.

Blacks had their African Cultures ripped from them by 200 years of slavery. I'm sure that didn't help them succeed here after 1865.

I notice that nobody yet has said that my 100 yd. dash analogy is way off base.

White guilt? Is that all you have? Is that your best refutation?
If it is then, know this; it will convince absolutely nobody new who doesn't already agree with you.

 
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Steve Cates
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Xahendir wrote:
CoffeeRunner wrote:
France could be next to leave the EU. If there's a referendum I hope it's called EU revoir instead of admittingly catchy Frexit.


Our current political system makes it impossible for the Front National to get real power.

Could she be elected president ?
Yes, in theory.

But ...Our president is elected by the voters (not by elected politicians) in 2 rounds and if she was selected for the 2nd round against any other politician, there would be a large movement to vote for whoever is the 2nd candidate.
It happened to her father in 2002: he lost 80-20.

And if she was elected ?
She would need the congress to have a real power and to change laws. But our parliamentarians are elected few weeks after the election of the president, by the majority, district by district and in 2 turns. Which, once again allow all others parties to join up against the extreme-right-wing and make this party fail.
In 2012 during the first turn, 13% of the votes were for the Front national and they get ... 2 seats among the 577.

Our prime minister, who is the real head of the government is chosen in the leading party of the low-chamber of the Parliament and he is the one leading the policies while the president is "the face of France" abroad.

So ... I don't worry about an extreme-right-wing power in France.
Having your own nation is extreme right wing now? Do you worry about sharia law gaining power in France?
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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ironcates wrote:
Xahendir wrote:
CoffeeRunner wrote:
France could be next to leave the EU. If there's a referendum I hope it's called EU revoir instead of admittingly catchy Frexit.


Our current political system makes it impossible for the Front National to get real power.

Could she be elected president ?
Yes, in theory.

But ...Our president is elected by the voters (not by elected politicians) in 2 rounds and if she was selected for the 2nd round against any other politician, there would be a large movement to vote for whoever is the 2nd candidate.
It happened to her father in 2002: he lost 80-20.

And if she was elected ?
She would need the congress to have a real power and to change laws. But our parliamentarians are elected few weeks after the election of https://boardgamegeek.com/geekmailthe president, by the majority, district by district and in 2 turns. Which, once again allow all others parties to join up against the extreme-right-wing and make this party fail.
In 2012 during the first turn, 13% of the votes were for the Front national and they get ... 2 seats among the 577.

Our prime minister, who is the real head of the government is chosen in the leading party of the low-chamber of the Parliament and he is the one leading the policies while the president is "the face of France" abroad.

So ... I don't worry about an extreme-right-wing power in France.
Having your own nation is extreme right wing now? Do you worry about sharia law gaining power in France?
No, but how they want it to look can be.
 
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Alexandre P.
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ironcates wrote:
Xahendir wrote:
CoffeeRunner wrote:
France could be next to leave the EU. If there's a referendum I hope it's called EU revoir instead of admittingly catchy Frexit.


Our current political system makes it impossible for the Front National to get real power.

Could she be elected president ?
Yes, in theory.

But ...Our president is elected by the voters (not by elected politicians) in 2 rounds and if she was selected for the 2nd round against any other politician, there would be a large movement to vote for whoever is the 2nd candidate.
It happened to her father in 2002: he lost 80-20.

And if she was elected ?
She would need the congress to have a real power and to change laws. But our parliamentarians are elected few weeks after the election of the president, by the majority, district by district and in 2 turns. Which, once again allow all others parties to join up against the extreme-right-wing and make this party fail.
In 2012 during the first turn, 13% of the votes were for the Front national and they get ... 2 seats among the 577.

Our prime minister, who is the real head of the government is chosen in the leading party of the low-chamber of the Parliament and he is the one leading the policies while the president is "the face of France" abroad.

So ... I don't worry about an extreme-right-wing power in France.
Having your own nation is extreme right wing now? Do you worry about sharia law gaining power in France?


What ?!

France is not "extreme right wing" and there is no sharia law in France.
Were those provocations or real questions ?
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Steve Cates
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Xahendir wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Xahendir wrote:
CoffeeRunner wrote:
France could be next to leave the EU. If there's a referendum I hope it's called EU revoir instead of admittingly catchy Frexit.


Our current political system makes it impossible for the Front National to get real power.

Could she be elected president ?
Yes, in theory.

But ...Our president is elected by the voters (not by elected politicians) in 2 rounds and if she was selected for the 2nd round against any other politician, there would be a large movement to vote for whoever is the 2nd candidate.
It happened to her father in 2002: he lost 80-20.

And if she was elected ?
She would need the congress to have a real power and to change laws. But our parliamentarians are elected few weeks after the election of the president, by the majority, district by district and in 2 turns. Which, once again allow all others parties to join up against the extreme-right-wing and make this party fail.
In 2012 during the first turn, 13% of the votes were for the Front national and they get ... 2 seats among the 577.

Our prime minister, who is the real head of the government is chosen in the leading party of the low-chamber of the Parliament and he is the one leading the policies while the president is "the face of France" abroad.

So ... I don't worry about an extreme-right-wing power in France.
Having your own nation is extreme right wing now? Do you worry about sharia law gaining power in France?


What ?!

France is not "extreme right wing" and there is no sharia law in France.
Were those provocations or real questions ?

You basically said exiting the eu was extreme right wing. Do I misunderstand you? If immigration and demographic shifts continue at the pace of what is currently happening in France, sharia law is in the not too distant future.
Edit bolded your words
 
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ironcates wrote:
You basically said exiting the eu was extreme right wing. Do I misunderstand you?


He was saying that the NF are extreme right wing. Which they most certainly are.

ironcates wrote:
If immigration and demographic shifts continue at the pace of what is currently happening in France, sharia law is in the not too distant future.
Edit booked your words


Much in the same way that demographic changes in the UK in the 60s now mean it is a country with a close to 100% black population.
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Alexandre P.
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ironcates wrote:

You basically said exiting the eu was extreme right wing. Do I misunderstand you? If immigration and demographic shifts continue at the pace of what is currently happening in France, sharia law is in the not too distant future.


I explained our elections and why I think with the current system the extreme right wing can't have the power.
I never tried to link the exit from EU with a political party.

Regarding sharia, your opinion is "the number of muslims is growing in France so they will have sharia" ?
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jeremycobert wrote:
Steve1501 wrote:
Perhaps it is a failure for the same reasons that Progressive policies have failed the Blacks here.


Fixed that for you. Also, why are only blacks failing in America while Asians seem to be thriving. Also, if this were true, why does America remain the nation where most Africans choose to immigrate to ?

Side note: is this your new shtick ? white guilt ?


Yeah!

Why are some BGGers 1/bright, while others avoid being mouthbreathers?
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Steve Cates
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Xahendir wrote:
ironcates wrote:

You basically said exiting the eu was extreme right wing. Do I misunderstand you? If immigration and demographic shifts continue at the pace of what is currently happening in France, sharia law is in the not too distant future.


I explained our elections and why I think with the current system the extreme right wing can't have the power.
I never tried to link the exit from EU with a political party.

Regarding sharia, your opinion is "the number of muslims is growing in France so they will have sharia" ?

Let me explain how demographics shift.
Say there are 9 French to 1 Muslim that is pro sharia. Let's say the Muslims double in a generation and the French are simple replacement. After 1 generation it's 2 muslims to 9 French. After two it's 4 to 9 after three it's 8 to 9 after 4 it's 16 to 9. In four generations, the political power of the French is gone. In three it's probably gone, because the French don't have in-group preference.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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ironcates wrote:
Xahendir wrote:
ironcates wrote:

You basically said exiting the eu was extreme right wing. Do I misunderstand you? If immigration and demographic shifts continue at the pace of what is currently happening in France, sharia law is in the not too distant future.


I explained our elections and why I think with the current system the extreme right wing can't have the power.
I never tried to link the exit from EU with a political party.

Regarding sharia, your opinion is "the number of muslims is growing in France so they will have sharia" ?

Let me explain how demographics shift.
Say there are 9 French to 1 Muslim that is pro sharia. Let's say the Muslims double in a generation and the French are simple replacement. After 1 generation it's 2 muslims to 9 French. After two it's 4 to 9 after three it's 8 to 9 after 4 it's 16 to 9. In four generations, the political power of the French is gone. In three it's probably gone, because the French don't have in-group preference.
Let me explain how demographics shift.

Say there are 9 French to 1 Muslim that is pro sharia. Let's say the Muslims double in a generation and the French double in three. After 1 generation it's 2 muslims to 9 French. After two it's 4 to 9 after three it's 8 to 18 after 4 it's 16 to 18. In four generations, the political power of the French is not gone. In three it's definitely not gone, because the French are still in the majority.



 
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