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Eldritch Horror» Forums » Rules

Subject: Yet another Yog spell discard question rss

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Sabe Jones
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Looks like there have been a few questions about the "Arcane Understanding" mystery lately--here's another my crew ran across and couldn't come to a consensus about.

Arcane Understanding requires that you pass a Lore test when resolving a spell effect, then spend a Clue and discard the Spell to make progress on the Mystery.

An Investigator has a Spell that begins, "During the Encounter Phase, you may test Lore. If you pass, you may [do such and such]." Say, Mists of Releh, or Clairvoyance, that are used to mess with how and where you encounter things. At the beginning of the Encounter Phase, you are out of Clues, but you resolve a Research encounter and gain the Clue.

Can you then activate Mists / Clairvoyance / etc. with the intent of pitching it to Arcane Understanding, even if the spell's effect itself won't do any good?

My read was that the Encounter Phase is still going (especially if there's another Investigator in line to resolve Encounters after you) at that point, so it's still legal to activate the spell. My compatriots disagreed, feeling that the Encounter Phase effectively ends for you as soon as you've collected the Clue from your Research, so you can't squeeze a spell in there that's meant to be used at the top of the phase.
 
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Krzysiek Domański
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Wrocław
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Elseleth wrote:
Can you then activate Mists / Clairvoyance / etc. with the intent of pitching it to Arcane Understanding, even if the spell's effect itself won't do any good?
Yes, you can.
The only effect of those spells is to create an additional option for you. The game doesn't care whether you choose that option afterwards.
 
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Oded K
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I don't think you can use it here. You could use Mists even if no monsters are on your space, but I wouldn't allow you to use Mists or Clairvoyance after you already had an encounter.

These spells give you more options, but they shouldn't be allowed after the options could have been used in my opinion.
 
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Scott Dockery
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As for your specific example, however, that won't work. You can only cast those spells at the beginning of the Encounter phase, before you've chosen your encounter. The clause prior to "Test [Lore]" is effectively a precondition for casting the spell; you can't just arbitrarily make Lore checks whenever you feel like it.
 
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Krzysiek Domański
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Pseudonym100 wrote:
I wouldn't allow you to use Mists or Clairvoyance after you already had an encounter.
rsdockery wrote:
You can only cast those spells at the beginning of the Encounter phase, before you've chosen your encounter.
This isn't correct.
Nikki Valens wrote:
The only timing restriction for the Spell is "during the Encounter Phase." This could be any time, before, after, or during your encounter.
Source.
 
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Chris Knapp
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My take on it would certainly be that you can cast it any time during the encounter phase. However if you choose to engage a monster you have to finish that engagement (you can't choose to engage, roll a poor will test and decide you want out).
 
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B Day
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I was present at this game. I shall now put on my robe and barrister wig, and revisit that night.

As I recall, our discuss pertained to Mists or Releh spell.

"During the Encounter Phase, you may test [Lore]. If you pass, you may choose an encounter as if there are no Monsters on your space".

We were not rebating whether the player is permitted to cast the spell when there are no monsters in the space, but whether they are permitted to cast the spell after resolving an encounter, so as to satisfy "Arcane Understanding". This was an issue because the player didn't have the requisite clue at the start of the encounter phase, but it could have also arisen if they had drawn the spell as a reward, after the encounter.

Should we permit the player to cast the spell after choosing and resolving the encounter? I felt that we should not, because the spell lets them "choose an encounter", and they had already chosen an encounter. If we permit the player to cast the spell after resolving the encounter, we must permit them to choose a second encounter.

So long as the investigator had the spell and clue before choosing the first encounter, it is fine to fine to cast the spell in a space without monsters, but this must be done before the encounter phase. Otherwise, on every turn the player could defeat a monster, have an encounter, and then cast the spell to have a second encounter.
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Sabe Jones
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The official ruling seems to cut a reasonable middle path: you're free to use the spell a single time anywhere in the Encounter Phase, even after your own encounter, but it doesn't do anything wacky like give you extra encounters.

That said, I'm happy to adopt the "At the beginning of your turn in the Encounter Phase" reword house rule, in the unlikely event that we play against Yog again and turn up Arcane Understanding!
 
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B Day
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I see your point now. Individual players do not have encounter phases. There is just one encounter phase, during which each player resolves an encounter. Investigators can cast spells at any point during that phase, so if they earn a clue or a spell as a reward for resolving an encounter, they still have an opportunity to satisfy "Arcane Understanding" on the same turn. Their encounter is over, but the encounter phase is not.

That goes a long way towards addressing my concerns, but Mists of Raleh affects how we choose encounters, so it still seems wrong to cast it after choosing an encounter. If its effect weren't optional, I would take that as evidence that it cannot be cast after an encounter, because doing so would grant a second encounter. But I see that its effect is optional, so if we cast it after an encounter, we can simply choose not to resolve its effect. That's enough to satisfy me.
 
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