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Subject: Flower Power rss

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Ferdinand Marques
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When exactly does the USSR gain victory points based on this card?

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Carlo Patek
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Faq says:
“Q. When exactly does the USSR gain victory points based on this card?
A. Because of the high ops value of the card, all war cards played for Ops or the EVENT will be subject to the 2 VP penalty unless made unplayable by a subsequent card. War Cards played on the Space Race will be exempt from the penalty.”

It doesn't answer the question, but IIRC the digital game applies Flower Power effects before eventual gains from the war (so it can trigger autovictory)
Anyone can confirm this?
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Florian Buhr
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https://twilightstrategy.com/2012/10/25/flower-power/

Just as it says on the card. Whenever the US player plays a War Card.

But that you're asking for the exact time, as this might be important in an 18-0 scenario, I would assume right when the US player plays it, before any of his actions or the war, if used as an event, are resolved.

Right?

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Dave Rubin
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A card is played and then is resolved. Thus, the USSR gets 2 VPs before the effects of the War Card are applied.
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Fred Shugars
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10.2.3 If both players earn Victory Points from the same card or Event play, apply only the difference in Victory Points awarded.

This would say that the Flower Power, and War Cards VPs are netted.

Thus if Flower Power is in effect, the USSR is at 18, and the US plays and Wins a Brush War, the score would go to 19, since both the 2 points for Flower Power and the 1 point from Brush War were the result of the same card or Event play (the Brush War).
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Dave Rubin
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But Flower Power and Brush War are neither the same card nor event.
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Kristian Thy
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Gunulfr ok Øgotr ok Aslakr ok Rolfr resþu sten þænsi æftir Ful, felaga sin, ær warþ ... døþr, þa kunungar barþusk.
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dirubin wrote:
But Flower Power and Brush War are neither the same card nor event.


Nobody's saying they are. But due to the ongoing effect of Flower Power, both players earn VPs from the play of Brush War and therefore 10.2.3 applies.
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Ziemowit Pazderski
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This is indeed a tricky issue, since this rule is implemented differently on WGR and Steam. Rather an important one too, so I guess the standard procedure for problematic rulings will have to be applied, perhaps even to the last step (Randy -> Consim -> The Makers).
 
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Michael Kiefte
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turbothy wrote:
dirubin wrote:
But Flower Power and Brush War are neither the same card nor event.


Nobody's saying they are. But due to the ongoing effect of Flower Power, both players earn VPs from the play of Brush War and therefore 10.2.3 applies.


I think the problem is that Flower Power gives the USSR 2 VPs when the US plays a war card, but the US can get 2 VPs if the war card is successful. You know when the USSR gets 2 VPs right away, because the US plays the card, but you don't know whether the US gets 2 VPs until the event is finished. So does the USSR get the 2 VPs before the card is resolved.

I suspect that is where the confusion comes from.

I believe the answer is that you figure out who gets how many VPs after you resolve the war event and it may be a net of 0 VPs if the US is successful.
 
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Fred Shugars
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10.2.3 seems pretty clear on this point:

If both players earn Victory Points from the same card or Event play, apply only the difference in Victory Points awarded.

The play of the War Card generates victory points for both the USSR and potentially the winner of the War Event. Both of those scorings are combined.
 
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Charles Danila
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FAQ for #49 Missile Envy and #50 We will bury you, covers a similar circumstance and state that because the scoring results from separate events they are not linked in any way. Based on this the USSR would gain the 2 VP as soon as the card hit the table and get the autowin.

But I am fairly new to this game...
 
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Michael Valentine

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chaz56 wrote:
FAQ for #49 Missile Envy and #50 We will bury you, covers a similar circumstance and state that because the scoring results from separate events they are not linked in any way. Based on this the USSR would gain the 2 VP as soon as the card hit the table and get the autowin.


The text of WWBY is clear that the 3 vps for WWBY occur before any award of vps to US from play of a card, and is thus an exception to the general rule of 10.2.3. Contrast the text of WWBY with the text of Flower Power, which does not explicitly indicate an exception to the general rule. I would draw the opposite conclusion from the way WWBY is handled--if an exception to the general rule were intended then the card text would explicitly say so. Flower Power doesn't, so no exception is intended. IMO, the vps gained from the play of any war card while under Flower Power should be first netted as per rule 10.2.3 before vps are awarded and applied to the vp track.
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