$5.00
$20.00
$15.00
Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
16 Posts

Hands in the Sea» Forums » Rules

Subject: Alternate Strategy cards maintenance cost after paying six silver? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jeremy Kidder
United States
Martensdale
Iowa
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
When using the alternate strategy cards form the mini-expansion what happens during the next round if a player has just payed the '6' silver cost? Which of the following options is correct:

A. The cost is capped and remains fixed for all future rounds at 6.
B. The player pays 7 silver next round (and so forth) and must find an alternative way to remember the current cost.
C. The strategy card is flipped over with no option to pay maintanence cost.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Berger
United States
Littleton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
B) Find an alternate way to track the cost.

Though, if you're paying more than 6 for a strategy card, you're probably paying too much.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Judd Vance
United States
WICHITA
Kansas
flag msg tools
Every Man a (K-State) Wildcat!
badge
"Just get that sucka to the designated place at the designated time and I will gladly designate his ass...for dismemberment!" - Sho Nuff.
mbmbmbmbmb
The cost to purchase the card is in the upper left hand corner. The maintenance cost is in the upper right-hand corner. If you bought Corvis, for example, when the first Carthage campaign occurred, there is no maintenance cost. However, when the second Carthage campaign happens, you would pay to silver for maintenance cost. The next time the Carthage campaign occurs, you would pay for silver. The next time, it cost six, then eight, then 10…

That is the purpose of the number tokens: to track the ever-increasing maintenance costs.

If you do not pay maintenance, flip the card over or upside down to signify that it is dead. You cannot later pay maintenance and re-activate it. It's dead, Jim. To draft a new strategy card, you still have to spend an action to discard the dead card.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Berger
United States
Littleton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Judd, I think he's just asking what happens if the maintenance goes past 6 since the tokens only go up to 6.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Judd Vance
United States
WICHITA
Kansas
flag msg tools
Every Man a (K-State) Wildcat!
badge
"Just get that sucka to the designated place at the designated time and I will gladly designate his ass...for dismemberment!" - Sho Nuff.
mbmbmbmbmb
Ah... Sorry.

Keep increasing. If one were so inclined to draft a high maintenance card on the 1st turn, and kept it throughout, you would be paying 20 silver on the 11th turns' campaign.

Another way to track maintenance is (in the example above) when you have the 6 marker on it, when you pay maintenance, put 2 of the 6 silver that would go to the bank on top of the card. Combined with the 6 marker, would indicate that the maintenance cost is now 8. If you pay that next campaign card, then put 2 of your 8 silver on the card, so now it has 4 silver coins and the 6 marker, indicating, the maintenance cost has increased to 10...and so on.

I seriously doubt will be paying more than 6 silver maintenance very often if at all. It could happen, but man, you have GOT to be desperate. At that point, I would be more interested in spending 2 additional silver and drafting a dictator/mercenary general or a siege engine, or buying a couple of ships. Or pulling out a fully loaded (5-card) reserve.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Judd Vance
United States
WICHITA
Kansas
flag msg tools
Every Man a (K-State) Wildcat!
badge
"Just get that sucka to the designated place at the designated time and I will gladly designate his ass...for dismemberment!" - Sho Nuff.
mbmbmbmbmb
By the way, the reason for those maintenance cost is because without them, we found out we were holding on to one card for most of the game. The cost of cards was high, making it more difficult to draft a new one and the card we got early was pretty good.

Besides taking away from one of the best parts of the game (the strategy cards), it wasn't following the history: the Romans didn't keep the corvus for the entire war, and they only had 2 periods of intense ship building. It wasn't an ongoing thing.

I was wanting to do things that would force or encourage players to swap out strategy cards more often and suggested rules that cards could only be used for 4 turns max or rules such as "If Rome gets hits with the Naval Disaster, they must discard the Corvus strategy card" (which happened historically).

It was too fiddly and rules intensive. Dan, being the genius that he is, devised the maintenance cost. The longer you held the card, the more prohibitive it got to hold the card, and you would probably be holding the card for 3-4 turns max. If you REALLY needed it, you wouldn't be forced to discard it due to some fiddly rule, but you would have to plan for it, by hoarding silver.

The cards with the higher cost are the ones that tended to be held on to the longest.

By cheapening the purchase cards on these cards, you pay less up front and more in the long run. This encourages you to swap out your strategy cards more and cycle the strategy deck. Ultimately, it adds more tough decisions for the player, because you want to do a bunch of things, but only have 2 actions. It also encourages players to try out different strategy cards. All of them are awesome and if you know how to use them, you can do some pretty amazing things with them.

I say this because it was one of the many instances I was blown away at how Dan solved a tough problem with a simple and elegant solution. The dude is wicked smart and while he's not going to toot his own horn, I will.
4 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Judd Vance
United States
WICHITA
Kansas
flag msg tools
Every Man a (K-State) Wildcat!
badge
"Just get that sucka to the designated place at the designated time and I will gladly designate his ass...for dismemberment!" - Sho Nuff.
mbmbmbmbmb
djberg96 wrote:
Judd, I think he's just asking what happens if the maintenance goes past 6 since the tokens only go up to 6.


Dan, your new avatar is messing me up. I got so used to googly eyed ferret, that I didn't realize you answered the question.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeremy Kidder
United States
Martensdale
Iowa
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
One further question.
From reading the rules to the Mini-Expansion it looks as though you start with the maintenance cost on the up right corner of the stategy card for the first end of turn, and then at the end of each subsiquent turn you add one silver to that printed cost: "After collecting income, pay 1 Silver for the maintenance cost of the strategy card, e.g., if your maintenance cost was 3 then you should the maintenance cost using the maintenance tokens included in the base game.pay 3 Silver, and so on. Then increase "

But reading Judd Vance's answers it would appear that rather than starting with the intiial cost shone on the card and then adding 1 Silver to that each subsiquent round that you are to add that base amount again and again. Thus (if I am reading him right) a card with a maintenance cost of 2 would then double to 4 and then to 6 and so on.

Which is the correct understanding of how these costs work.

Thanks!

P.S. i am loving the game so far!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Judd Vance
United States
WICHITA
Kansas
flag msg tools
Every Man a (K-State) Wildcat!
badge
"Just get that sucka to the designated place at the designated time and I will gladly designate his ass...for dismemberment!" - Sho Nuff.
mbmbmbmbmb
JKidder wrote:
One further question.
From reading the rules to the Mini-Expansion it looks as though you start with the maintenance cost on the up right corner of the stategy card for the first end of turn, and then at the end of each subsiquent turn you add one silver to that printed cost: "After collecting income, pay 1 Silver for the maintenance cost of the strategy card, e.g., if your maintenance cost was 3 then you should the maintenance cost using the maintenance tokens included in the base game.pay 3 Silver, and so on. Then increase "

But reading Judd Vance's answers it would appear that rather than starting with the intiial cost shone on the card and then adding 1 Silver to that each subsiquent round that you are to add that base amount again and again. Thus (if I am reading him right) a card with a maintenance cost of 2 would then double to 4 and then to 6 and so on.

Which is the correct understanding of how these costs work.

Thanks!

P.S. i am loving the game so far!


Get Dan's answer. What I said is how we play tested it and that's how I have the (unreleased) Vassal module set up.

I'm pretty sure I'm right, because otherwise you wouldn't need tokens at all.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Berger
United States
Littleton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Judd is correct. The example of play probably clarifies it.

It might be easier to think of those tokens as round markers that you increment at the end of each campaign phase. Multiply the number by the number in the upper right. That's your maintenance cost.

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeremy Kidder
United States
Martensdale
Iowa
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Does that mean that a card with a maintenance cost of 0 will never have any associated cost?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Berger
United States
Littleton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
JKidder wrote:
Does that mean that a card with a maintenance cost of 0 will never have any associated cost?

Correct.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mick Mickelsen
United States
Dallas
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Why put the zero on there at all? Why not leave it blank? Also, when we add the strategy cards from the mini-expansion should we take the old corresponding cards out? Or should we have two shipbuilding cards for example, one with a maintenance cost and one with no maintenance cost?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Judd Vance
United States
WICHITA
Kansas
flag msg tools
Every Man a (K-State) Wildcat!
badge
"Just get that sucka to the designated place at the designated time and I will gladly designate his ass...for dismemberment!" - Sho Nuff.
mbmbmbmbmb
mickmick wrote:
Why put the zero on there at all? Why not leave it blank? Also, when we add the strategy cards from the mini-expansion should we take the old corresponding cards out? Or should we have two shipbuilding cards for example, one with a maintenance cost and one with no maintenance cost?


Use one set or the other. Either play with the maintenance cost rules and use those cards or don't play with them and use the ones that come in the game.

If he had not put "0" on the maintenance, then people would be asking what the value is and why didn't he just add "0"?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeremy Kidder
United States
Martensdale
Iowa
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Just to be totally clear on this (please pardon my slowness to grasp how this works). The following is how and when you pay right?
1. During the first turn I buy a card with maintenance cost of 2 Silver.
2. At the end of the turn during the Campaign action I pay nothing. I only place the "1" circle on the card to remind me what I will pay next Campaign action.
2. At the Campaign action ending Turn 2 I pay 2 Silver and flip the counter to the "2" side.
3. At the Campaign action at the end of the third Turn I pay 4 Silver and place the "3" counter on the card in place of the "2". Etc...

Is this correct?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Judd Vance
United States
WICHITA
Kansas
flag msg tools
Every Man a (K-State) Wildcat!
badge
"Just get that sucka to the designated place at the designated time and I will gladly designate his ass...for dismemberment!" - Sho Nuff.
mbmbmbmbmb
JKidder wrote:
Just to be totally clear on this (please pardon my slowness to grasp how this works). The following is how and when you pay right?
1. During the first turn I buy a card with maintenance cost of 2 Silver.
2. At the end of the turn during the Campaign action I pay nothing. I only place the "1" circle on the card to remind me what I will pay next Campaign action.
2. At the Campaign action ending Turn 2 I pay 2 Silver and flip the counter to the "2" side.
3. At the Campaign action at the end of the third Turn I pay 4 Silver and place the "3" counter on the card in place of the "2". Etc...

Is this correct?


Assuming the card has a maintenance cost of 2, you are correct. I assume if the purchase cost was 2 and the maintenance cost is 2, then you are talking about Celtic Allies, Siege Warfare, or Greek Allies.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.