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Flamme Rouge» Forums » General

Subject: Comparisons (to Leader 1) rss

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Paul Agapow
United Kingdom
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I'm intrigued by what I've read about FR and the "feel" of the game seems to be a lot like that of Leader 1, a favourite game of mine. Could someone in the know comment about the differences or philosophy of FR? ON e one hand, if it's like L1, great, on the other hand, why would I need another game just like L1?
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Asger Harding Granerud
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I'm not sure there are many that have played both as of now. And if there are they are 99% certain to be my close friends, so not sure how trustworthy they would be

From my point of view they are very different. Though I've only played Leader 1 once. As I recall it there is some level of keeping track, and counting, and I'd say both of those are absent from Flamme Rouge.

But to keep everyone calm about it, amongst the many reviewers we've reached out to, I insisted on including a couple of people that aren't actually reviewers at all. Among these I picked out Jean-Michel due to one thing. He is the person on BGG with the most registered plays of Leader 1

Jean-Michel lafouge
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I trust Flamme Rouge to measure up to any of these games. Maybe not to 100% of gamers (unlike Pokemon designers don't have to catch them all ), and certainly not replacing them. They play quite differently when all comes to it

Happy gaming
Asger Granerud

PS The bad news is that production has been delayed again... We should still make it for Essen but there wont be any reviews in advance
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Paul Agapow
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Thanks Asger. Anything you'd like to say about the general ideas or approach of FR? Somewhere was mentioned "conserving energy" which is pretty much the central idea of Leader 1. How does FR do it without tracking?
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Asger Harding Granerud
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I have already written a bit about it here: https://boardgamegeek.com/blog/4588

Also check out the rulebook uploaded to BGG.

But to answer specifically, in FR each rider starts the game with 15 cards. Each turn one of those cards is played, thus 'thinning' the deck. More over each turn is a battle for position where you want to gain slipstreaming (bonus moves immediately on the board), avoid blocking (rare, but loss of move) and avoid wind resistance/exhaustion (adds a low value card to your deck).

Thus the rider on the board and his deck of diminishing cards track all that is needed. The perfectly played rider will arrive at the final sprint with better cards because he used slipstreaming to get there and avoided blocking. He will also have a better selection of those cards, as his deck hasn't been diluted by exhaustion. All assuming he doesn't arrive on his lonesome from a break away!

Regards
Asger Granerud
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René Christensen
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Leader 1 is more of a 'hard core' simulation, while Flamme Rougue is easy to get started with due to the very few rules, but yet it is as difficult as Leader 1 to master!
I have tried to let my family and friends play both Leader 1 and Flamme Rougue and the latter wins.
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Richard Dewsbery
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Although Leader 1 is a very good game, my copy didn't see much play; it was just a shade too complex - and too long.

The most important ingredient in a race game is, IMO, that it must FEEL like a race. It must feel fast, and perilous, and pressured. There need to be decisions, but they have to be decisions that are taken quickly. Powerboats nails it, as does Das Motorsportspiel.

Based on my (limited) experience so far, so does Flamme Rouge.
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Paul Agapow
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RDewsbery wrote:
Although Leader 1 is a very good game, my copy didn't see much play; it was just a shade too complex - and too long.

The most important ingredient in a race game is, IMO, that it must FEEL like a race. It must feel fast, and perilous, and pressured. There need to be decisions, but they have to be decisions that are taken quickly. Powerboats nails it, as does Das Motorsportspiel.

Based on my (limited) experience so far, so does Flamme Rouge.


It's always been remarkable to me how few race games feel like a race. I suspect that the theme is one of those that feels like it should be a good game (also see, the stock market and investment), but is actually deceptively hard to translate.
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Ryan Keane
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Flamme Rouge feels much lighter than Leader 1. It plays much faster, but still feels like cycling, which is a big plus; Leader 1 has a hard time hitting the table for me and sees mostly solo play. FR feels more like Ave Caesar with a few rules to better model cycling (no blocking, slipstreaming, riding into the wind). It's a little bit like Breaking Away or Turf Master. Leader 1 is much more of a simulation, with a true peloton, pre-race planning of what abilities might best fit the track setup, and better ability to organize your 3 cyclists (or more if you play with larger teams) to help each other to get 1 cyclist to the line first. I don't think the decisions are any faster in FR than Leader 1, but in Leader 1 you waste a lot of time counting out spaces, taking turns moving the cyclists on the track, that is saved with the simplified track in FR (although some is lost with shuffling cards). If you want the ultimate cycling game, I would recommend checking out the free PnP Tour Cycle Free.
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