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Subject: The Hercules Move rss

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Ciro Pernice
Netherlands
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...or how to win in 2-3 rounds. In most scenarios, especially the 3 and 4 player games, all Empires have a very close leadership on the Leader Board, usually one point difference. Under the right condition, i.e. if the Hercules/Heracles card is present among the available heroes, the last player to buy and move can win the game. By purchasing this card, the Leader influence marker is moved two slots up on all columns. You win by being the Leader in all 3 columns (Trade, Bldgs, Military).
 
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Aernout Casier
Netherlands
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ciro wrote:
...or how to win in 2-3 rounds. In most scenarios, especially the 3 and 4 player games, all Empires have a very close leadership on the Leader Board, usually one point difference. Under the right condition, i.e. if the Hercules/Heracles card is present among the available heroes, the last player to buy and move can win the game. By purchasing this card, the Leader influence marker is moved two slots up on all columns. You win by being the Leader in all 3 columns (Trade, Bldgs, Military).

You can only win by claiming Leadership at the end of phase 5... So you don't instantly win.
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J
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Alexandria
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ciro wrote:
...or how to win in 2-3 rounds. In most scenarios, especially the 3 and 4 player games, all Empires have a very close leadership on the Leader Board, usually one point difference. Under the right condition, i.e. if the Hercules/Heracles card is present among the available heroes, the last player to buy and move can win the game. By purchasing this card, the Leader influence marker is moved two slots up on all columns. You win by being the Leader in all 3 columns (Trade, Bldgs, Military).


Lets see. Last player to buy on turn 2-3 should always be Egypt (4 player) or Greece (3 Player or maybe 4 player). Any other player taking over culture leader leader at that point is rather unlikely as both Egypt and Greece start with 4 culture whereas Carthage and Rome start with 1. Assuming the Greece/Egypt player is competent they will almost always choose for themselves to go last in building giving them a chance to see such an issue coming.

Both Carthage and Rome start with 7 Trade whereas Egypt and Greece start with 4. To take over trade leader with Hercules Egypt/Greece must first make up 2 other points there.

Rome and Greece start with 3 military whereas Carthage and Egypt has 2. Which puts both within striking distance but only if neither Rome or Carthage add to their military.

Then of course you have to hope that no other players are positioned to attack you cause if they do they can disrupt one of your leads and so long win.

Realistically speaking this seems to be something that would happen only to those unfamiliar with the game. Egypt/Greece are too far away from trade leader to reasonably threaten it as long as Carthage/Rome aren't asleep. Then you also have to hope that Carthage/Rome are asleep in military as well.

Overall I suppose it's possible but just like with every other "Here's a 3 turn win" it relies on opponents being asleep and not playing at their best.
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Ciro Pernice
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The Hague
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We were asleepblush It was a 3 player game, Greece vs. Egypt vs. Babylon. Greece was last player buying on round 3 and got the Hercules card. Usually the Hercules hero is not what you want in order to let your empire grow (military or economically). During the move/attack phase we could not do anything to diminish his advantage of 2 point, e.g. destroying armies or cities or caravans. Next time pay attention !
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Pas L
Australia
Melbourne
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No good will come of this, mark my words!
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The fewer the players the more some things will work, and others might not.
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J
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Alexandria
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ciro wrote:
We were asleep:blush: It was a 3 player game, Greece vs. Egypt vs. Babylon. Greece was last player buying on round 3 and got the Hercules card. Usually the Hercules hero is not what you want in order to let your empire grow (military or economically). During the move/attack phase we could not do anything to diminish his advantage of 2 point, e.g. destroying armies or cities or caravans. Next time pay attention !


I'm sorry if my comment came off as either rude or condescending. It wasn't my intention. But yes, that is something to watch out for.

In my first 2 player game ever (both noobs) I too managed all 3 leaders ridiculously early. In 2 player you need to hold it for 2 rounds and my opponent just barely managed to take a lead from me.

On the first turn Rome and Carthage should either be building caravans or units making it hard for Greece, who admittedly starts off in the best position for a 3 leader win regardless of player count (tied in 2 categories and just 3 away from the last, no other empire starts nearly as close), to take both.
 
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Ciro Pernice
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No offence taken, we really did not pay attention and did not expect such a situation would arise. It's a great game with a vote between 8 and 9. Hope to play the 6 player version and also use some of the special scenarios.
 
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Frank Johnson
United States
Missouri
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Agree that there can be some quick wins in this game if you are not paying attention.

Played for the first time last night in a three-player game with my brother and my brother-in-law. He won two games in less than an hour, building the pyramids both times. First, with Hannibal and the card that lets you keep two resources and then with Greece. With Greece, he built several temples and was generating 10 coins a turn and, silly me, thought "Oh, it'll be a couple of turns before he can purchase that fifth hero/wonder." Of course, on the next turn he had 10 + 2 reserved from the previous round. Game over, man.

Discussing it afterword, we realized that pyramid win is there to force you to be aggressive early. We were all settling in for a long game of slowly building up our empires.
 
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Gringe Commander
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ciro wrote:
We were asleepblush It was a 3 player game, Greece vs. Egypt vs. Babylon. Greece was last player buying on round 3 and got the Hercules card. Usually the Hercules hero is not what you want in order to let your empire grow (military or economically). During the move/attack phase we could not do anything to diminish his advantage of 2 point, e.g. destroying armies or cities or caravans. Next time pay attention !


You cannot play egypt and babylon in a 3 player game.
Or did i miss something in the rules?
 
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J
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Alexandria
Virginia
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GringeCommander wrote:
ciro wrote:
We were asleep:blush: It was a 3 player game, Greece vs. Egypt vs. Babylon. Greece was last player buying on round 3 and got the Hercules card. Usually the Hercules hero is not what you want in order to let your empire grow (military or economically). During the move/attack phase we could not do anything to diminish his advantage of 2 point, e.g. destroying armies or cities or caravans. Next time pay attention !


You cannot play egypt and babylon in a 3 player game.
Or did i miss something in the rules?

In the atlas expansion rulebook, there is an alternative 3 player setup using Greece, Babylon and Egypt.
 
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