Madhujith Venkatakrishna
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Hi All,

I love Euros and off late tending to like some heavier ones like Caylus, Steam, Russian Railroads, Poseidon, Marco Polo, Loved Brass (the one or 2 times I played it), Through the Ages etc.

I was looking at a heavier game and found some of the games above interesting...however not sure which one to pick up.

Panamax- I just fear might have some overlaps with Poseidon i.e like a 18xx game

I own Vinhos, but haven;t played it yet, but have heard so much about Vital Lacerda that I'm thinking Kanban or The Gallerist

The thing I need for a game are good solid thinking to make choices, multiple paths to victory, the game should have great replayability, each game should be different...

Oh...BTW I have Mombasa but haven't played that either...just looking for a new game as the FLGS near my place is going to have a sale shortly...

Thanks for the help.

Best Regards,
Madhu
 
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Panamax, Kanban, and Gallerist are significantly worse if you don't play them with four players, if that is a concern.

La Granja plays well at all player accounts and is probably the easiest of the ones listed.

Panamax is only loosely related to 18xx -- the stock aspect is very minor.

Kanban can be played online at http://www.boiteajeux.net.

The games of Nuno Bizarro Sentieiro & Paulo Soledade -- Madeira and Nippon have a similar weight and feel to Vital Lacerda's games.
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I recommend Terra Mystica. It's my favorite. Madeira is a wonderful beast but lord is it dense! Be warned your first game is going to be a struggle but it's so worth it.
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I'll say I found La Granja to be disappointing. As an admitted mashup, the game ends up feeling oddly truncated. There's not enough room for any of the things it's comprised of to really stretch their legs.

How long of a playtime are you aiming for?
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Madhujith Venkatakrishna
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ErsatzDragon wrote:
I'll say I found La Granja to be disappointing. As an admitted mashup, the game ends up feeling oddly truncated. There's not enough room for any of the things it's comprised of to really stretch their legs.

How long of a playtime are you aiming for?


Thanks a lot! While I personally don't mind 3+ hrs, my group which is another 3 players prefer around 120-150 max....more 120 than 150 I would say....
 
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madhujith wrote:
ErsatzDragon wrote:
I'll say I found La Granja to be disappointing. As an admitted mashup, the game ends up feeling oddly truncated. There's not enough room for any of the things it's comprised of to really stretch their legs.

How long of a playtime are you aiming for?


Thanks a lot! While I personally don't mind 3+ hrs, my group which is another 3 players prefer around 120-150 max....more 120 than 150 I would say....


Not many heavy games play in that time frame, if you can find it, and if you think it will hit the table, check out Arkwright

Also, check out Splotter games. Roads & Boats, Food Chain Magnate
or Indonesia.

If those aren't to your liking, look into Phil Eklund's games.
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madhujith wrote:
Thanks a lot! While I personally don't mind 3+ hrs, my group which is another 3 players prefer around 120-150 max....more 120 than 150 I would say....

Madeira or Dominant Species are then no good fits as they all take longer than that (Just like TtA).
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golden_cow2 wrote:
Panamax, Kanban, and Gallerist are significantly worse if you don't play them with four players, if that is a concern.

La Granja plays well at all player accounts and is probably the easiest of the ones listed.

Panamax is only loosely related to 18xx -- the stock aspect is very minor.

Kanban can be played online at http://www.boiteajeux.net.

The games of Nuno Bizarro Sentieiro & Paulo Soledade -- Madeira and Nippon have a similar weight and feel to Vital Lacerda's games.


I don't know for Kanban and Panamax, but The Gallerist plays very well at 2p (or 3p).
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Gallerist also has a pretty good solo variant so it's a little more flexible than Kanban.
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Panamax absolutely requires 4, as the action selection dice skew too easily otherwise. Regardless the game really feels on rails, so although it sounded neat, I found it a touch dull.

The Gallerist is fantastic with any player count, big fan. Kanban is also very good, but felt it could use more players than 2 (haven't gotten to yet).

La Granja is a rather dull affair of figuring out where to use a card and rolling with it, playing on your own farm board and little else.
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I'm surprised at all the votes against La Granja. I personal think it is a great game and enjoy the market and the multi use cards.
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and...what about Stefan Feld?

Trajan and Aquasphere are good choices!

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madhujith wrote:
Hi All,

I love Euros and off late tending to like some heavier ones like Caylus, Steam, Russian Railroads, Poseidon, Marco Polo, Loved Brass (the one or 2 times I played it), Through the Ages etc.

I was looking at a heavier game and found some of the games above interesting...however not sure which one to pick up.

Panamax- I just fear might have some overlaps with Poseidon i.e like a 18xx game

I own Vinhos, but haven;t played it yet, but have heard so much about Vital Lacerda that I'm thinking Kanban or The Gallerist

The thing I need for a game are good solid thinking to make choices, multiple paths to victory, the game should have great replayability, each game should be different...

Oh...BTW I have Mombasa but haven't played that either...just looking for a new game as the FLGS near my place is going to have a sale shortly...

Thanks for the help.

Best Regards,
Madhu

Panamax is a unique beast and great game that plays best with 4 that I find in no way related to Poseidon (which I also love).

Vinhos is the only Lacerda game I can stand ... Kanban is simply awful and The Gallerist is even worse. I find Lacerda and his more enthusiastic fans are mistaking complexity of mechanics and overall amount of chrome in his games for elegance and depth, and the game and any fun gets lost in that morass. YMMV, naturally. One reason I also dislike Bruxelles 1893 ... too many gears trying to mesh together without any real need.

La Granja isn't as heavy game as the others you've suggested. It's replay-ability comes in the form of those multi-use cards. I really enjoy it for the smooth nature of the gameplay and interesting decisions each game (with some variability as the start of every game), but it's not especially heavy.

Mombasa is heavier by a bit, and is quite enjoyable, but I traded it away because of some of the scoring "flaws" I found after a number of plays that took a sense of enjoyment away from the gameplay (especially weak book track, for instance).

Several other good suggestion have come up ... Madeira, the Splotter titles (though I found Food Chain Magnate a bit of a hot mess), and Dominant Species all might be interesting for you. Trajan's a good game if you don't mind Feld's "point-salad" type games, though again, not especially heavy (sort of a La Granja weight to me). Madeira is one on a friend's radar for both the weight and economic mechanics.

Hope some of that was helpful.
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I think you should play what you have first, prior to buying anything. After that I'd go with my gut feeling and get the one that looks most appealing. I don't have any of the games on your list and think they all look appealing. You probably can't go wrong picking any one of them.
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Not the heaviest stuff, but Caylus / Russian Railroads level:
Tesla vs. Edison: War of Currents
Keyflower
The Voyages of Marco Polo
Rococo
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Madhujith Venkatakrishna
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adamredwoods wrote:
Not the heaviest stuff, but Caylus / Russian Railroads level:
Tesla vs. Edison: War of Currents
Keyflower
The Voyages of Marco Polo
Rococo


Firstly thanks a lot for the all the insights all of you!

but I agree with (bbblasterfire)- May be I just need to play through some that I already have say like Terra Mystica, Scythe, Trickerion and Mombasa and later take a call....
 
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I was going to join in with Madeira but if timing is an issue then how about some of What's Your Game's other offerings?

Zhangou
Nippon
Signorie

All play faster than Madeira and are very good, if a bit lighter.

I'm also a fan of Terra mystica but it really comes to life at 4 or 5 P which might take it into the realms of too long.

Most of Uwe Rosenberg's games seem good fits too: agricola, Le Havre and Caverna out if those I've played. (At the Gates of Loyang is my favourite but I've only ever played with 2 and don't fancy it with more).

Feld is great but I think most of his games are medium heavy rather than heavy. The heavier ones include:

Trajan (my #1 game but it seems to polarise opinion)
Luna (probably his heaviest, I never get to play it as my daughter disliked it :-()
Bora Bora
Aquasphere (very puzzle like)

Other medium heavy euros, perhaps a bit lighter than the above, but highly recommended ;

Grand Austria Hotel (superb)
Rokoko
Lancaster
Troyes
Concordia.

Sorry I rambled on much longer than intended

Chris
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madhujith wrote:
I own Vinhos, but haven;t played it yet, but have heard so much about Vital Lacerda that I'm thinking Kanban or The Gallerist

Not sure why you don't just play Vinhos, at least before choosing another Lacerda game?
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Terra mystica is really good and if you already own it then it should be played. I have fallen into the trap that games I bought over a year ago but haven't played stopped being exciting.

The gallerist I really liked. It's got Just enough of that tension that your moves could help or hurt others but not make it cut throat. There are some deep long term strategies to be played here.

la granJa is only considered heavy because three full simple games interwoven into it. If you like games that give you a problem and ask you to turn it into the most possible points(like The Castles of Burgundy), then this is your game.
 
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Considering this thread is as old as it is, maybe this advice is all irrelevant but since everyone else is chiming back in I will too.

First of all, yeah, play the games you own but haven't played before. In my opinion Mombasa is as good as or better than any other game in the thread title. Vinhos I liked a good amount but didn't love, but plenty of people love it so definitely give it a go.

In terms of the games you listed, Kanban is my favorite. Vital Lacerda might be my favorite designer and I'd rank his games:
Kanban~CO2
Gallerist
Vinhos

CO2 might be a good pick for you as well, since it very vaguely reminds me of Brass, though that's a bit of a different thing.

Kanban, Gallerist, and Vinhos are all more standard euros, and to me the difference is that Vinhos is just not quite as clever or unique as the others. And Gallerist is very good but a more easygoing game. Kanban really makes you work the hardest to do well. Actually Vinhos and Kanban are pretty close in this regard but like I said I just found Vinhos a bit less interesting. But maybe you want a more easygoing game, then Gallerist might be better for you.

Panamax has some really interesting ideas and is a pretty unique game. I wouldn't worry about it being too similar to Poseidon (which I haven't played but I have played a handful of 18xx games), the stock aspect isn't really as much at the forefront as it is in those games. But there are a few weird things about the game that for me keep it from being considered great. The sharing of boats and the way you can position them to get pushed is really great, but I find the central dice drafting to be somewhat weak, and there is some minor randomness in the stevedore cards, the goal cards, and the contracts that while it doesn't bother me too much it does feel a bit out of place.

La Granja I found to be a solid game but nothing special. Plenty of people have already said a lot about it so I won't elaborate.

I'll also throw in a recommendation for the various What's Your Game? titles, which have already been mentioned. My top two games are Madeira and ZhanGuo, both are incredibly interesting and clever games that force you to think about things in so many different ways to really play well. At some point in the past I wrote this as a response to a similar request and people seemed to find it helpful. Maybe you can too. It is a bit long though, sorry. Well I guess it's already clear that I'm not one for brevity.
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Madhujith Venkatakrishna
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Thanks all....long time since I responded to the suggestions....I've now played Kanban...and LOVE IT!

I've also played Food Chain Magnate and really liked it....but need to play it more to get into it....it was just our 1st game to more understand the system and mechanics....so I'm assuming from what I heard from everyone they all liked it as well and hence we will be trying that shortly as a full game...

Right now the hottest games though are Scythe and Concordia.....

Thanks for all the great suggestions!
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