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Barry Miller
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Edit: The below post was written with a sleepy mind at 0130 in the morning, and probably should never have seen the light of day. Yet as my sleepy mind is no excuse, please take this post as a light-hearted quibble and by no means an indication of my opinion of CoH! I've got three games under my belt and am really enjoying it. I just got the solo expansion and ordered the Fire Fight Generator today!

Combine two givens:

1) That after 50+ years, my mind is littered with tidbits of crap which only serves to clog it up, much like dust balls clog your air conditioner grill, preventing your AC from working at max efficiency.
and,
2) I gotta wait till my wife goes to bed before setting-up CoH on the dining room table, which has me playing the game a little sleepy.

Which explains why the coloring convention of the movement and attack costs work to test my mental alertness! I'm new to the game and am working my way through the scenarios, solo. Tonight it was scenario 3. After the end of the first round while flipping all the counters to their fresh side, it dawned on me that for the Germans, I used the Attack Costs to pay for each units' movement!

Argh. I wasn't even thinking... I was asleep at the wheel.
After so many years of associating the color red with "attack" or, "fire", I have the damndest time keeping the two costs straight. Always, it's been: red = attack!

So I often find myself trying to pay the red cost to attack and the black cost to move. Usually though, I catch myself... Here's the typical conversation in my head:
"No, it doesn't cost three APs to move to the next hex. It cost only one! Remember, red equals move. It's black that equals attack!"

But tonight I didn't catch myself and thusly robbed the German squads of some ground they would've otherwise gained. Will have to start the game over tomorrow night.


Also, while I'm on the topic...

One more issue I have with the markings on the counters (despite being very impressed with the counters overall!), is the location of the Flank and Front Defense Ratings. Am I the only one who wishes their positions were swapped?

It just doesn't sit well with my OCD that, when looking down on a unit counter, a unit's Flank Defense Rating is in front of it's Front Defense Rating!
My brain just naturally expects it to be the other way around - i.e., the Flank to be behind the front! (Or if you prefer, the flank rating should be underneath the front rating).

So when wanting to refer to the defense ratings, my brain looks to the front/top number for the unit's Front Defense rating, and it looks to the rear/bottom number for the Flank Defense rating. But it's not laid out that way! Argh again!

So of course, its a matter of re-training my brain with more games. The "re-training" is made easier with the knowledge of why the costs are colored the way they are (i.e., to distinguish foot/wheeled/armored units). But I've yet to discover why the Front and Flank Defense ratings are in the wrong position!


Regardless, it's late and so my mind isn't in the mood for re-training!

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Martí Cabré

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I think the same. I find that chosen colors and numbers do not follow the implicit conventions in many other wargames. But you get used to it after a few plays.
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Dan Carey
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Woodinville
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Personally, I see it as the right number is for movement and the left number is to shoot, instead of the color.

The first time I played the game, I spent a few minutes wishing the front and flank/rear numbers were reversed. I quickly picked it up and now, having played 45+ games of CoH, I certainly don't want it to change.
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Barry Miller
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SeattleDan wrote:
Personally, I see it as the right number is for movement and the left number is to shoot, instead of the color.

I'll have to look at it that way, also. Makes sense and will make it easier to keep them straight. Thanks!

SeattleDan wrote:
...having played 45+ games of CoH, I certainly don't want it to change.

Certainly don't blame you! After another 42 games myself, I expect it not to be an issue anymore!

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uwe eickert
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Hi Barry,
I figured I would give you explanations on how the colors and positioning numbers developed so that it is hopefully easier for you to decipher

The reason the movement is colored red for infantry and not the attack is because we needed a way to distinguish between foot movement and vehicle movement (which is shown in blue). Since we represent infantry defense values in red and vehicle defense values in blue, we thought the infantry and vehicle movement values should be in the same colors. Since the cost of attack is independent of the units type, we left it a neutral black color. It is completely understandable why this would be confusing though to a veteran wargamer.

The reason that the front defense was placed on the bottom is because our engineering brains thought to place all the primary numbers on the outside of the counter and minor special numbers closer to the center of the counter. This makes sense for everything except for the defense values. The positions of the front and flank defenses are something we wish we could change but cannot since the way they are positioned are how CoH players have been playing for 8 years.

I hope this helps.
Gunter
Academy Games
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Barry Miller
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uweeickert wrote:
I figured I would give you explanations on how the colors and positioning numbers developed so that it is hopefully easier for you to decipher
...
I hope this helps.
Gunter
Academy Games

Gunter,

Thank you for such a great reply! Your involvement means a lot.

First, I should've put a caveat in front of my OP (I'll do that now), that I in no way am complaining nor expected an explanation! I'm really enjoying the game so far, so I guess my OP was more of a way to share my only quibble with what is a superb product overall.

Actually, my first post in the CoH forums was supposed to be nothing but accolades... accolades over the rulebook, the components, the production value, and the system itself. But I unwisely decided to hold off till getting a few games under my belt - to be able to write with more depth. So instead I found it easier (and quicker) to post a thread about the one quibble I had. Though I meant to keep it lighthearted, it still nonetheless didn't deserve to bat lead-off in my line-up!

I read a great comment a few weeks ago, elsewhere on the Geek, that it's up to the player to adapt to the game which the designer designed, rather than trying to force the game to adapt to the player. Thusly I look forward to playing CoH many more times, and will learn that red means go, and also that what's in front of us is actually behind!

Thanks again for your kind reply. Also it was a pleasure meeting you and your father at Gen Con. Keep up the great work!

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uwe eickert
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bgm1961 wrote:

uweeickert wrote:
I figured I would give you explanations on how the colors and positioning numbers developed so that it is hopefully easier for you to decipher
...
I hope this helps.
Gunter
Academy Games

Gunter,

Thank you for such a great reply! Your involvement means a lot.

First, I should've put a caveat in front of my OP (I'll do that now), that I in no way am complaining nor expected an explanation! I'm really enjoying the game so far, so I guess my OP was more of a way to share my only quibble with what is a superb product overall.

Actually, my first post in the CoH forums was supposed to be nothing but accolades... accolades over the rulebook, the components, the production value, and the system itself. But I unwisely decided to hold off till getting a few games under my belt - to be able to write with more depth. So instead I found it easier (and quicker) to post a thread about the one quibble I had. Though I meant to keep it lighthearted, it still nonetheless didn't deserve to bat lead-off in my line-up!

I read a great comment a few weeks ago, elsewhere on the Geek, that it's up to the player to adapt to the game which the designer designed, rather than trying to force the game to adapt to the player. Thusly I look forward to playing CoH many more times, and will learn that red means go, and also that what's in front of us is actually behind!

Thanks again for your kind reply. Also it was a pleasure meeting you and your father at Gen Con. Keep up the great work!



It was great meeting you at Gencon as well. We have the nicest fans! Enjoy the game
Gunter
Academy Games
 
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