Erik Stonemark
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Wisconsin
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Hey guys,
I apologize in advance if this has already been brought up at some point, I may have missed it in the over 600 threads/forums on this game already, also, I am new to the BoB system, having just got the 3 games in the 2nd chance kickstarter, so bear with me. Also, most of my gaming experience has been with operational, campaign, and global type wargames, and only this year have I been getting into the more tactical squad/smaller unit type games like CoH, OST, and BoB.

I was getting accustomed to the rules when I noticed a couple lines in the fire section. My question is in regards to the following excerpt from the rules under the unit fire section:

Units may not fire into a hex containing friendly Infantry or
Guns, but may fire through a hex containing enemy or friendly
units (or both).

Okay, so I get the whole not wanting to fire at your own units idea, and also not risking hitting them by shooting at enemy units that are in the same hex. But then being able to fire through an area that they are in and hitting enemy units in hexes past them?

Can someone explain the rationale here? I know this may seem trivial and might not come up all that much, but it just strikes me as odd that you cannot do one thing, but can do another that is basically having the same effect on one hex(bullets are flying into and or through a given area). I understand the scale of this game and approximately how many soldiers each unit can possibly represent, at times there may be adequate space to fire through, but at other times not. I also get that if two enemy units are in melee, things could be bad if a friendly unit opened fire trying to hit the enemy.

But wouldn't the same be true if they are trying to hit enemies behind?

Or are we able to use the rationale that the friendly units are hunkered down or only in one part of a given hex?

So here is a little dry humor about a firefight with this in mind:

Good guys: "Hey guys, I know you are busy fighting hand to hand combat with the enemy, but I don't want to hit you, look out! Hit the deck! I'm going to shoot at the bad guys in the hex past you!"

Friendlies in melee:"Thanks for the warning!"

Bad Guys in melee:"Same here!"

I am liking the game and system so far, especially how everything is baked in to the system. The firefights I have played so far(not many yet, just the intros and 1 or 2 others) have been fun and at times very challenging. The realism seems higher than other games and yet straightforward in the mechanics. (I like that there is no cards and leader pieces in this system, it simplifies things. I really like the quality of the components and am overall very impressed by the product and game itself.

I am probably making to much out of this apparent contradictory situation, but I thought I would ask and put it out there.
 
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David desJardins
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Burlingame
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redblackmonkey wrote:
I am probably making to much out of this apparent contradictory situation


Yes, you are. Every tactical wargame I've played lets you fire through hexes with friendly units. The hexes are large and a few friendly soldiers in a hex that's tens of meters across is not really an issue at all. Firing from a distance at enemy soldiers in hand to hand combat with friendly soldiers is a whole different thing.
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Russ Williams
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Yep, I think you are missing that if opposing units are in the same hex, then they're assumed to be in direct physical contact (in melee), so shooting at enemy units with your units in the same hex puts both the enemy and the friendly units directly in the line of fire, whereas shooting at enemy units past friendly units in some other hex means that your friendly units are probably not literally directly in the line of fire.
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Jim Krohn
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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The idea is that you can fairly easily shoot through units. They are DEFINITELY hunckered down. My dad was in Vietnam and he used to tell me in a tongue-in-check fashion that he would take the cigarettes out of his front pocket to get closer to the ground. All my research confirms that mentality. So, when you have 10-20 guys spread out over ground 40 yards by 40 yards, if you they are all seeking cover, you will have fire lanes. I get that there may be times when you wouldn't, but those would be the exception. This rule also eliminates some gamey and highly unrealistic tactics of using one unit to shield another.

Now, when in melee, the units in the same hex are literally within hand to hand range, so now it becomes impossible to pick out only one target, which is why fire is forbidden.

As far as firing THRU a melee, that is because melees almost never take place in open ground. So, if there is a building in the hex, that is where the melee is taking place. The building will block LOS. I don't need to have the melee do it. So most of the time it is a mute point. However, in the instance where the LOS might just clip a corner of the hex, I don't want the fact that a melee is going on in the building to suddenly block the LOS thru that hex because the string hits a corner of the hex. That is not where the melee is taking place.

In the case of a foxhole in open ground, again, the melee is happening in the foxholes so fire lanes should exist.

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Jim Krohn
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Sorry, cross posted.
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Erik Stonemark
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Jim Krohn wrote:
The idea is that you can fairly easily shoot through units. They are DEFINITELY hunckered down. My dad was in Vietnam and he used to tell me in a tongue-in-check fashion that he would take the cigarettes out of his front pocket to get closer to the ground. All my research confirms that mentality. So, when you have 10-20 guys spread out over ground 40 yards by 40 yards, if you they are all seeking cover, you will have fire lanes. I get that there may be times when you wouldn't, but those would be the exception. This rule also eliminates some gamey and highly unrealistic tactics of using one unit to shield another.

Now, when in melee, the units in the same hex are literally within hand to hand range, so now it becomes impossible to pick out only one target, which is why fire is forbidden.

As far as firing THRU a melee, that is because melees almost never take place in open ground. So, if there is a building in the hex, that is where the melee is taking place. The building will block LOS. I don't need to have the melee do it. So most of the time it is a mute point. However, in the instance where the LOS might just clip a corner of the hex, I don't want the fact that a melee is going on in the building to suddenly block the LOS thru that hex because the string hits a corner of the hex. That is not where the melee is taking place.

In the case of a foxhole in open ground, again, the melee is happening in the foxholes so fire lanes should exist.

Thanks for the thorough explanation, that makes more sense to me now. I am quite enjoying the game(s) so far!
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