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Subject: Deeds rss

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Ian Barker
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I'm a bit confused on the limitations of Deeds, and need some clarifications.

1. Say I use 2 deeds to meet the "present on six tiles" win condition and get the pretender token. Then, I lose one tile (so I no longer have the six tile win condition) but then manage to become chieftain of five opposing clans. Could I use one of the deeds to bump that to six opposing clans, or are the deeds committed to the original win condition that I no longer have?

2. What happens to "spent" deeds after the round is over? Do they go back to the bank, or are they retained between rounds? I couldn't find anything explicit about this in the rules, and last time we retained them due to the idea that it pushes the end of game closer all the time, sort of like the increasing number of metropoles in a game of Cyclades.

Thank you!
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Tanguy Serra
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Thoughtful question -

I think of the the idea of a deed as an amazing accomplishment which is kept in history and sung and written about and kept from turn to turn and the tribe having accomplished it gets a "success factor" when looking at getting elected chief at the election round - being present in a territory/sanctuary or dominating a clan is the equivalent of one deed -

So 2. You keep your deeds till the end of the game once you have achieved something worthy of a deed

And 1. You can use the deed(s) to replace any success factor i.e. If you have presence in 5 territories and 5 sanctuaries you can use 2 deeds to get you two victory conditions but if you have 1 deed and 5 sanctuaries and 5 territories you can only use the deed once to get to one victory condition

I thinks that in your example, you dominate 5 clans and have a deed so fulfill one victory condition - even if you took the pretender token assuming the deed was for territory -
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Christian
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Yes, deeds are not spent and you allocate them as you need. They never get "fixed" in one specific victory condition.

The only way to lose a deed is if you are reduced to zero clans on the island.
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Evgeni Marinov
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This would be an excellent entry to the FAQ, if one existed.
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Richard Rutten
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vega777 wrote:
This would be an excellent entry to the FAQ, if one existed.

Indeed it would. I would go one step further and call it an errata. I for one thought you spent them because in the rules it said:

Quote:
Each Deed can be used only once to complete a single victory condition.

I thought this was pretty clear. But Christian saying you keep them is even more clear. Still the above rules quote seems to contain very unfortunate wording at the least.

Nevertheless we had great fun with the game during the first two plays.
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Kai Mayer
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Thanks for the quick reply and clarification, this is something I was wondering about as well. Great game!
 
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Three Headed Monkey
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Kaiman620 wrote:
Thanks for the quick reply and clarification, this is something I was wondering about as well. Great game!

I think this line exists so a deed can't power two victory conditions at once.

For example if you have one deed, presence in five territories and presence with five sanctuaries you can only achieve one victory condition with the deed. It doesn't make both victory conditions easier at once.
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Richard Rutten
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Three Headed Monkey wrote:
I think this line exists so a deed can't power two victory conditions at once.

For example if you have one deed, presence in five territories and presence with five sanctuaries you can only achieve one victory condition with the deed. It doesn't make both victory conditions easier at once.

That was clear from the "single victory condition". The "can be used only once" part is what was leading me to the wrong conclusion.

Quote:
Each Deed can be used only once to complete a single victory condition.
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Can you use 2 deeds to meet a single victory condition, so you only need 4 of something?
 
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Benji
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patox wrote:
Can you use 2 deeds to meet a single victory condition, so you only need 4 of something?


See the example on page 10 of the rules. They describe exatly that. (Yes, you may use multiple deeds towards the same condition)
 
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Would 6 deeds be a victory condition?
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Benji
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Yes. But they would be rather hard to get...
 
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Shoosh shoo
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Ok i think i totally misu derstood how the deeds work. I thought you paid a deed token to fulfill a victory condition. So if i had presence in only o e place, i thought i could just spend that deed and say im using it to say im present in 6 places now, then take a pretender token.

It sounds like you guys are saying a deed counts for either o e of your clans, an opposing clan, or a sanctuary depending on what u need at the time.
 
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Benji
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shooshoo wrote:
Ok i think i totally misu derstood how the deeds work. I thought you paid a deed token to fulfill a victory condition. So if i had presence in only o e place, i thought i could just spend that deed and say im using it to say im present in 6 places now, then take a pretender token.

It sounds like you guys are saying a deed counts for either o e of your clans, an opposing clan, or a sanctuary depending on what u need at the time.


That is not what "we guys" are saying, but what the rules say. Again: check the example on page 10. If you were right, the player could fulfill 2 conditions with 2 deeds.

Fulfilling victory conditions would be way too easy in your "variant".
 
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Raph Moimoi
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Blind Reality wrote:
vega777 wrote:
This would be an excellent entry to the FAQ, if one existed.

Indeed it would. I would go one step further and call it an errata. I for one thought you spent them because in the rules it said:

Quote:
Each Deed can be used only once to complete a single victory condition.

I thought this was pretty clear. But Christian saying you keep them is even more clear. Still the above rules quote seems to contain very unfortunate wording at the least.

Nevertheless we had great fun with the game during the first two plays.


The right wording has been lost in translation : a Deed can only be added to 1 only condition even if you could have 2 conditions fulfilled thanks to a Deed. Nowhere it is said you have to discard the Deed.
 
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Richard Rutten
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Pikaraph wrote:
The right wording has been lost in translation : a Deed can only be added to 1 only condition even if you could have 2 conditions fulfilled thanks to a Deed. Nowhere it is said you have to discard the Deed.


I don't mean to be a troll. But in the rules it says you can only use each deed once. Which is synonymous to discarding. So it does say that in the rules. Please point me to the place where it says you keep them.

I know you should keep them, and it makes more sense that way. But the rules just say something different. Hence there should be an errata.
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John K
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patox wrote:
Would 6 deeds be a victory condition?


Im not even sure if there are 6 cards in the deck to get you those deeds!
 
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Raph Moimoi
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freightrain12 wrote:
patox wrote:
Would 6 deeds be a victory condition?


Im not even sure if there are 6 cards in the deck to get you those deeds!


You can use Druid and other stuff to get a Deed each turn, but you will eventually fulfill some victory condition before getting 6 Deed tokens, so this won't happen.
 
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Raph Moimoi
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Blind Reality wrote:
Pikaraph wrote:
The right wording has been lost in translation : a Deed can only be added to 1 only condition even if you could have 2 conditions fulfilled thanks to a Deed. Nowhere it is said you have to discard the Deed.


I don't mean to be a troll. But in the rules it says you can only use each deed once. Which is synonymous to discarding. So it does say that in the rules. Please point me to the place where it says you keep them.

I know you should keep them, and it makes more sense that way. But the rules just say something different. Hence there should be an errata.


RAW you don't have to discard : if there is no sentence about dicarding, why would you discard ? The rule tells you to discard a card when played, so you discard. It doesn't tell to discard a Deed, so you don't discard it.
I agree, this could have been written, but by default you do what the rule tells, you don't have to imagine what you should do, isn't it ?

The rule should say you may only allocate 1 Deed to 1 victory condition, this is better stated in the french rule.
 
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Richard Rutten
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Pikaraph wrote:
Blind Reality wrote:
Pikaraph wrote:
The right wording has been lost in translation : a Deed can only be added to 1 only condition even if you could have 2 conditions fulfilled thanks to a Deed. Nowhere it is said you have to discard the Deed.


I don't mean to be a troll. But in the rules it says you can only use each deed once. Which is synonymous to discarding. So it does say that in the rules. Please point me to the place where it says you keep them.

I know you should keep them, and it makes more sense that way. But the rules just say something different. Hence there should be an errata.


RAW you don't have to discard : if there is no sentence about dicarding, why would you discard ? The rule tells you to discard a card when played, so you discard. It doesn't tell to discard a Deed, so you don't discard it.
I agree, this could have been written, but by default you do what the rule tells, you don't have to imagine what you should do, isn't it ?

The rule should say you may only allocate 1 Deed to 1 victory condition, this is better stated in the french rule.

So what do I do when the rules tell me I can only use each deed once for a single victory condition? Because that is literally what it says.

What do YOU normally do with a one use token?
 
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Three Headed Monkey
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I believe the intention was to mean that you cannot use a deed to reduce the threshold for more than one victory condition at a time. It's just worded badly. You hold onto you deeds. Otherwise they would be useless as you would discard a deed to claim a pretender token and then would immediately no longer have achieved that victory condition for when the check victory conditions phase comes up at the start of the next turn.
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Benji
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Three Headed Monkey wrote:
It's just worded badly.


Yes, that is what Blind Reality is saying, and you are both right. We all know how they really work, but the rule is still... well... see above. Hence all he asks for is an "official" errata (which we kind of have here).
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Christian
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Ok guys, I give you my own translation of this last sentence of the deed paragraph:
"One deed cannot complete several victory conditions at once."

Maybe it's worded badly too, but I hope that's clear!

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Richard Rutten
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Kris wrote:
Ok guys, I give you my own translation of this last sentence of the deed paragraph:
"One deed cannot complete several victory conditions at once."

Maybe it's worded badly too, but I hope that's clear!


Great, then add. You do not lose your deed by using it.

This way all ambiguity is gone.
 
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Glen Lamb
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The Deed rule is not worded badly, it's very clear and obvious what it means. It's saying you can't use one deed to bump up points towards multiple victories. It doesn't say you spend the deed or discard it it just says they can be used to count towards 1 condition.

Interpreting a straight forward thing incorrectly isn't the fault of the rules writer.
 
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