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Subject: Play 1st Edition with 2ND Edition Rulebook ??? rss

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James Boutilier
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Is this possible?

I don't own anything, and didn't back the KS, but thought about picking up the cheaper 1st edition.

CONSIDERATION: I only play SOLO. I know 2nd edition has a solo variant (even though you can play 1st edition with 2 characters as a solo game).

CAN 1ST EDITION be played WITH 2nd Ed rulebook?

2nd edition says some mechanics were fixed up, monsters more tense, some things organized differently........

...... are these changes built into the CARDS or in the RULES?
If in the cards I guess you can't use 2nd ed rules for 1st edition game.

Direction would be greatly appreciated

(please no - just buy 2nd edition, as that's not an option).

Many thanks

jim
 
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Adam Kranzel
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jgb7 wrote:
Is this possible?

I don't own anything, and didn't back the KS, but thought about picking up the cheaper 1st edition.

CONSIDERATION: I only play SOLO. I know 2nd edition has a solo variant (even though you can play 1st edition with 2 characters as a solo game).

CAN 1ST EDITION be played WITH 2nd Ed rulebook?

2nd edition says some mechanics were fixed up, monsters more tense, some things organized differently........

...... are these changes built into the CARDS or in the RULES?
If in the cards I guess you can't use 2nd ed rules for 1st edition game.

Direction would be greatly appreciated

(please no - just buy 2nd edition, as that's not an option).

Many thanks

jim


How monsters choose what to attack has changed between first and second editions (targeting a specific person vs. a type), so anything relying on the new mechanism won't work. Also, the card sizes have changed, so you won't be able to use any of the expansions (other than Archfiends, which doesn't have cards that go other decks).
 
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James Boutilier
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Hi. I know about expansions... I only plan to play base and Archfiends anyway.

How monsters choose what to attack --- this is what I'm asking, is this something written on the cards, or based in the rulebook. If it's the rulebook then you can use the new rules, but if it's commands or choices specific to things printed on cards, then 1st edition is useless in that regards. (and from what I understand, this new use of monsters is almost game changing in how much better it is.)

 
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Michael Weber
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jgb7 wrote:
Hi. I know about expansions... I only plan to play base and Archfiends anyway.

How monsters choose what to attack --- this is what I'm asking, is this something written on the cards, or based in the rulebook. If it's the rulebook then you can use the new rules, but if it's commands or choices specific to things printed on cards, then 1st edition is useless in that regards. (and from what I understand, this new use of monsters is almost game changing in how much better it is.)



In the first edition, a monster choose to attack a specific character - say the major - if the major is not in town the monster will attackthe town deck in search for a different victim. The base mechanism is the same in the first and second edition, but in the second edition the monster do not attack a specific character, but rather a specific charater "TYPE" so the chances that the monster will find a victim in the town are higher, because the monster attacks a series of cards, not just one specific card.

In the first edition the name of the character is printed on the monster card, while in the second edition the character type (defined by a symbol) is printed on the card.
 
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James Boutilier
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Thank you
In the 1st edition, the name of character is on the monster card, BUT, do yo know his type? I mean, could you instead of going for the "name" instead just attack any of the "type" the named character is ?

Know what I mean?
It would do the same thing, IF the percentage/chance of that type is the same in 1st and 2nd edition

 
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Michael Weber
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I guess you could compile a list of characters belonging to a certain character class/type and whenever you draw a monster card you could check this list for alternate targets. I can't tell, though, whether or not and to what extend the charactes have changed over the editions.
 
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Adam Kranzel
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If you're playing with both first edition monsters and characters, there won't be any issues there, but I don't know if there are other things in the rules that reference or use the new mechanism.
 
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James Boutilier
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Adam, what I'm trying to figure is, in 2nd edition the Monster attack mechanic was made to kill more in the town (from what I understand) by not having a hero name on the monster card, just a "type?", so no needing to find someone to kill in the villager deck? instead more times find someone right on the town table (more threat).

Question is, can you somehow use that more threat mechanic from 2nd rules in the 1st Edition game?

(dont know of anything else big that changed)

 
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Adam Kranzel
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You'd have to go through a second edition copy and note which villagers are which type, and which monsters attack what types. I don't know if the rulebook includes a list. Personally, I'd just use the first edition cards as written. It still works well, it's just not as elegant as the second edition system.
 
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James Boutilier
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Yeah, I'm noticing that watching some more playthroughs.

Now I'm trying to find out with the Archfiend Expansion (Retail) also comes with the remastered 1st edition base game rulebook (like it did in the KS)
 
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Thomas PDX
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I am also interested in seeing if playing the 1st edition with the 2nd edition rulebook is doable.

Here are the differences that I have been able to gather so far:

Differences which a player can't do anything about:
- Different card size
- New artwork
- Power cards
- New monsters (?)

Differences which a player could manage:
- New Villager categories (and corresponding Monster attack changes)
- 1 Wound per Monster attacked with melee
- Might (costs 2 prowess and is discarded?)
- Heroism (limit of 5 per hero?)

Are there other significant differences?

As mentioned earlier in this thread, it would be nice to know the mapping of 1st ed Villagers to 2nd ed Categories. Can someone provide this?

Also it would be nice to be able to access the 2nd ed rulebook.
The Game Salute Shadowrift 2nd Edition web page links to a Rulebook labeled as V2: http://gamesalute.com/shadowrift-2nd-edition
The V2 label is very misleading as it refers to the V2 rules of the 1st edition, not the rules of the 2nd edition...

Any help is greatly appreciated!
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Jeremy Anderson
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Taeraresh wrote:
You'd have to go through a second edition copy and note which villagers are which type, and which monsters attack what types. I don't know if the rulebook includes a list. Personally, I'd just use the first edition cards as written. It still works well, it's just not as elegant as the second edition system.


You don't exactly have to note which monsters attack which types, because no monsters changed what type they were attacking (Monsters who attacked "The Smith" now attack [Workman Type]). Just find the attacked Villager on the list below and know that the monster is willing to attack anyone in the same group before hunting.
Also worth noting, in 2nd Ed it's much more likely that this rule will come up:
If something targets "a [something] in play" and there are two of them in your town - for instance if a monster is attacking the Mayor (therefore the Prosperity group) and the Prince and Merchant are both in play - the target is the one closest to the discard pile. Players don't get to pick.
(Though if I were running "1st Ed Copy using 2nd Ed rules" I'd probably give primacy to whatever's written on the monster: For instance, if the monster says "Kill the Smith" and the Smith and Farmer are both in play, I think it makes sense to just kill the Smith rather than consulting a table and working out that the Farmer should be attacked instead because it's closer to the discard pile)

Prosperity Group: Mayor, Prince, Merchant

Learned Group: Explorer, Sage, Witch, Priest (renamed Pilgrim in 2nd Ed)

Guard Group: Guard, Guard, Guard, Guard, Master-at-Arms

Workman Group: Farmer, Stonemason, Smith, Gravedigger

Happiness Group: Bard, Child, Baker, Innkeeper

Infiltrator Group: Vagrant, Backstabber, Heretic, Robber
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Jeremy Anderson
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tbollaert wrote:
I am also interested in seeing if playing the 1st edition with the 2nd edition rulebook is doable.

Here are the differences that I have been able to gather so far:

Differences which a player can't do anything about:
- Different card size
- New artwork
- Power cards
- New monsters (?)

Differences which a player could manage:
- New Villager categories (and corresponding Monster attack changes)
- 1 Wound per Monster attacked with melee
- Might (costs 2 prowess and is discarded?)
- Heroism (limit of 5 per hero?)

Are there other significant differences?

As mentioned earlier in this thread, it would be nice to know the mapping of 1st ed Villagers to 2nd ed Categories. Can someone provide this?

Also it would be nice to be able to access the 2nd ed rulebook.
The Game Salute Shadowrift 2nd Edition web page links to a Rulebook labeled as V2: http://gamesalute.com/shadowrift-2nd-edition
The V2 label is very misleading as it refers to the V2 rules of the 1st edition, not the rules of the 2nd edition...

Any help is greatly appreciated!


Note that Might isn't returned to its stack if you spend it on upkeeping a Skill. Other than that, I think you've got what you need for a kinda-sorta-2nd-Ed game here.
You could also replace the Coin stack with a single Coin card as reminder text and then do what 2nd Ed does and use 8 actual coins. This eliminates the possibility of players accidentally shuffling them into their decks, and players were already doing it in 1st Edition - I just stole the idea and made it official.
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Thomas PDX
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Fantastic, thanks Jeremy!
 
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